Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2015/16

[Dribble]

Silva is good enough to play for us in any system. But the one that suits him best is the one we played first 5 games of the season, 4231 with him as a number 10 with little defensive responsibility.

The 433 we played on Tuesday is similar to how Barca play. One sitting midfielder (Fernando) two box to box midfielders who press high up the pitch (Yaya and Dinho) and two wingers with real pace, who again press high up the pitch and look to attack with pace and directness.

When you say "Silva will be just fine in a fluid 3 man midfield" where do you see him fitting in to that system? It seems you would drop one of Yaya or Fernandinho? Personally, I think while Silva could do a job there against certain teams, he's not physical or athletic enough to play there every week in the PL. He's far better further up the pitch, and playing him as a number 8 is not getting the best out of him.

Personally, in that system I'd play him wide right where Navas played. He's played that role for Spain many times. He naturally drifts inside and is obviously devastating at finding space and a killer pass.

But I still don't think he's ideally suited to fitting in to that system. The reason we were so devastating on Tuesday was the pace and directness at which we pressed and attacked high up the pitch, and that really isn't Silva's natural game.

I stand by what I said, with everyone fit our strongest side is 4231 with Silva playing centrally behind Aguero. But if Silva isn't available, 433 is now a fantastic alternative, and gets the best out of the other players available.

Yeh I get you're coming from but I think that Silva's ability to hold onto the ball and create forward play havoc will be enough to negate his lack of defensive skills. Many times against Sevilla I saw Yaya wheezing his way back to our half whilst being left in the trail of Fernandinho, but Dino's superman performance masked this.

The reason I've always favoured a 4123 formation is because I don't believe we require 2 specialist defensive midfielders in the vast majority of our games. The 2 Ferns have great engines as does Delph, those are the legs you need around the ultra creative types like Silva, Nasri, Yaya & KDB to get the best out of them. Fernando sits deep to protect the 2 CB's and the 2 in midfield ahead of him are advanced to help the attackers when needed and at least one will drop back to help Fernando when needed.

This way we will continuously give the opposition something to think about when they attack us as Sevilla found out. They attack us and if it all goes wrong we have rapid wingers, a striker a creative midfielder and a skilful box to box midfielder on hand to punish them on the counter. The key to this is Fernandinho who can help in attack and defence and is the conduit between both and this is why I prefer 4123. Now if the 2 ahead of Fernando were Yaya and Silva, I could only see this working against lesser opposition as we just wouldn't have the available midfield legs with those two so in that case Yaya would have to play alongside Fernando in my 2nd preference which is 4231.

But like I said, I'm happy with either or a 4141 as anything is better that 442 with Yaya as one of the two and Silva marooned out wide then drifting inside leaving our full backs exposed.

 

[BillyShears]

My eyebrows shot up higher than Manuel's while reading that.

You should try parking your preconceived ideas about what I think. Three years is a long time in football and in life as I said to someone yesterday. On a personal level I don't like Mancini but that has little to do with football itself and everything to do with his very divisive nature which was and remains an unnecessary way for any manager working under Khaldoon et al to be. As a football manager Mancini's in the top 3 managers City have had in my lifetime and his tenure coincides with my greatest memories as a City fan.

 

[Damocles]

You should try parking your preconceived ideas about what I think. Three years is a long time in football and in life as I said to someone yesterday. On a personal level I don't like Mancini but that has little to do with football itself and everything to do with his very divisive nature which was and remains an unnecessary way for any manager working under Khaldoon et al to be. As a football manager Mancini's in the top 3 managers City have had in my lifetime and his tenure coincides with my greatest memories as a City fan.

You like his new haircut then? :)

 

[Neville Kneville]

The thing that needs changing most is your record. If and only if they are deemed good enough will you see them play. whatever you or I think about that is academic.

Some of them are good enough & that point was passed quite some time ago. One or two should have been 'deemed' good enough, ages ago. In fact Rony Lopes was 'deemed' good enough two seasons ago, had a great game, proved himself worthy of consideration for the squad, had one iffy game in a shit team performance & his City career effectively finished that day. Meanwhile Kolarov can have as many iffy games as he likes & still be trusted season after season.

That's absolutely not right.

People can pretend it is, all they like, but it isn't.

 

[schfc6]

For me, under Pellegrini the highs will be high and the lows will be pretty high. I love the guy, not sure he can take us to the CL but I know he'll never take us to where Chelsea are now. Or the Rags for that matter.

He's not an egomaniac so I doubt he'll ever win everything, but he's a wonderful coach so he'll win plenty and we'll never have to deal with the aftermath of an ego maniac.
My prediction for this season.

PL winners,
CL, semi's.
LC, finalists.
FA Cup. Semi's.

Not being greedy and wouldn't be a surprise if we do a bit better. That to me is success.

Our squad is the best, that's because Pellegrini has the ability to keep everyone happy. Where as Mourinho who has a very similar squad has alienated half off it, sold those he didn't like. So our squad now looks much better. Everyone is happy, everyone on form or relatively close to their best form. Take Bony, he's clearly struggled for form and sharpness, Pellegrini has stuck by him, complimented him, as have some players and has given him opportunity to recover his form. Contrast that with Mourinho and Oscar, Falcao or the turtle with Depay or Di Maria. It would have been easy for Pellegrini to blame "no fit strikers" or say we needed more strikers. He doesn't he works hard with the player, keeps their confidence up(when many fans would replace him with a 19 year old) and now hopefully we'll see the benefit, I thought Bony was excellent Tuesday.

Managers like Mourinho who demand so much of their players and stifle their natural talents can only manage for so long. David Silva wouldnt be picked and wouldn't play for Mourinho. Where as Pellegrini will do anything to have Silva, De Bruyne et al playing their best football. Sometimes this costs the team. For me I prefer it.
If we miss the odd title because we were too open or too attacking, I'm ok with that.
It looks like after three seasons Pellegrini will(should) have two PL, probably a couple of cups and CL knockouts in all 3 years. All playing great open football. In the same time Mourinho will have won a league, a league cup and leave the club in a total mess.

Pellegrini has made some very telling changes in the last six weeks, changes that have been overlooked. His changes in Mönchengladbach changed the game. It's easy to forget that 6 weeks ago, Navas & Fernando were still dirty words at the Etihad.
He changed it against Newcastle, his gamble vs Seville at home, his tactics for the Derby & Seville were brilliant, had Mourinho shown us such a master class(tm) the media would never let us forget.

Pellegrini's attacking philosophy may cost us a few points here and there, experts can point to how he could have set up differently but what they can't point out is how detrimental that may be to confidence & moral of the players.

I'm sure Pellegrini knows, especially as most idiots in the TV studios know, park the bus with great players and you won't lose. It's obvious. What's not obvious is how that effects the players. If football managers become too concerned with their opponents, too concerned with stopping their opponents they forget what they are good at. If players are constantly being asked to ignore their talents, ignore their instincts they lose interest. They lose belief.

Asking Toure to play like Matic or asking Silva to work like a dog is like asking Picasso to paint your skirting boards. They can do it, fine, they'll probably do it once or twice but soon they'll ask why you are not using their talents. Finally they'll either do it half hearted or not at all. See Chelsea now.

As has been pointed out, Pellegrini has the highest win percentage in PL history of an manager after X amount of games, it's time everyone got behind him.
All managers everywhere make mistakes, annoy their fans because as fans we want to win every game. TV 'experts' will tell you, you need to win every game and how 'the bubble has burst' or 'all isn't right' after one loss. They don't ever consider the bigger picture. A good manager does. Pellegrini is a great manager.

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

My big criticism of Pellegrini was that he was too attacking and not prepared to compromise his principles at all in order to achieve results. The difference between the matches in Rome and Seville from the first 70 minutes against Bayern soon after he arrived is remarkable. He now seems as tactically astute as Mancini but with obviously far superior man management skills. Whether he could build a team from scratch like Mancini is unknown but Pellegrini is the right man for right now. Mancini, like Mourinho, has proven that he can kick start clubs but that success is short term. I'd put both Pellegrini and Mancini on the level below Pep. Personally I'd probably edge towards Mancini for his proven ability to build a team but Pellegrini is the better fit for us now. If he wins the PL again this year and then Pep comes in I'd think it was the right decision but I'd still be very sad at him leaving. In a sense it would be similar to Mancini's depature: sad but progress.

 

[Neville Kneville]

My big criticism of Pellegrini was that he was too attacking and not prepared to compromise his principles at all in order to achieve results. The difference between the matches in Rome and Seville from the first 70 minutes against Bayern soon after he arrived is remarkable. He now seems as tactically astute as Mancini but with obviously far superior man management skills. Whether he could build a team from scratch like Mancini is unknown but Pellegrini is the right man for right now. Mancini, like Mourinho, has proven that he can kick start clubs but that success is short term. I'd put both Pellegrini and Mancini on the level below Pep. Personally I'd probably edge towards Mancini for his proven ability to build a team but Pellegrini is the better fit for us now. If he wins the PL again this year and then Pep comes in I'd think it was the right decision but I'd still be very sad at him leaving. In a sense it would be similar to Mancini's depature: sad but progress.

I'd only put Pellegrini below Pep, due to his stubborness, not down to his tactical knowledge.

If he starts actually counter attacking, & actually using tactics to hurt the opposition, rather than just continuing playing the same way without thinking about the circumstances, was as we did v Juve when a goal up & playing not very well (total shit management), I think he might hand Pep his arse.

The one thing Pep does seem to be able to do better than anyone, is this possession thing. But the way Pellegrini set us up for counter attack v Seville, may just rip that open. It has been done before.

 

[hilts]

Silva is good enough to play for us in any system. But the one that suits him best is the one we played first 5 games of the season, 4231 with him as a number 10 with little defensive responsibility.

The 433 we played on Tuesday is similar to how Barca play. One sitting midfielder (Fernando) two box to box midfielders who press high up the pitch (Yaya and Dinho) and two wingers with real pace, who again press high up the pitch and look to attack with pace and directness.

When you say "Silva will be just fine in a fluid 3 man midfield" where do you see him fitting in to that system? It seems you would drop one of Yaya or Fernandinho? Personally, I think while Silva could do a job there against certain teams, he's not physical or athletic enough to play there every week in the PL. He's far better further up the pitch, and playing him as a number 8 is not getting the best out of him.

Personally, in that system I'd play him wide right where Navas played. He's played that role for Spain many times. He naturally drifts inside and is obviously devastating at finding space and a killer pass.

But I still don't think he's ideally suited to fitting in to that system. The reason we were so devastating on Tuesday was the pace and directness at which we pressed and attacked high up the pitch, and that really isn't Silva's natural game.

I stand by what I said, with everyone fit our strongest side is 4231 with Silva playing centrally behind Aguero. But if Silva isn't available, 433 is now a fantastic alternative, and gets the best out of the other players available.

In my view silva replacing navas in that 4 3 3 is not a good idea, I think you need both navas and sterling to make it work, could he play the ya ya role? Not in the same way but we haven't seen it yet, the 4 2 3 1 using silva as the number 10 is ideal for him the problem is the 2 deeper midfielders, would he drop either silva or toure in the knock out stages or would he weaken the system to get them in, I have a feeling it will be the second but we shall soon see

For the majority of games it doesn't matter as much and we will do fine with whatever he goes with, winning the league is the number one priority for me but I am desperate to knock out one the the big boys in Europe, only then have we arrived, I think the owners will be of the same mindset

 

[BillyShears]

For me, under Pellegrini the highs will be high and the lows will be pretty high. I love the guy, not sure he can take us to the CL but I know he'll never take us to where Chelsea are now. Or the Rags for that matter.

He's not an egomaniac so I doubt he'll ever win everything, but he's a wonderful coach so he'll win plenty and we'll never have to deal with the aftermath of an ego maniac.
My prediction for this season.

PL winners,
CL, semi's.
LC, finalists.
FA Cup. Semi's.

Not being greedy and wouldn't be a surprise if we do a bit better. That to me is success.

Our squad is the best, that's because Pellegrini has the ability to keep everyone happy. Where as Mourinho who has a very similar squad has alienated half off it, sold those he didn't like. So our squad now looks much better. Everyone is happy, everyone on form or relatively close to their best form. Take Bony, he's clearly struggled for form and sharpness, Pellegrini has stuck by him, complimented him, as have some players and has given him opportunity to recover his form. Contrast that with Mourinho and Oscar, Falcao or the turtle with Depay or Di Maria. It would have been easy for Pellegrini to blame "no fit strikers" or say we needed more strikers. He doesn't he works hard with the player, keeps their confidence up(when many fans would replace him with a 19 year old) and now hopefully we'll see the benefit, I thought Bony was excellent Tuesday.

Managers like Mourinho who demand so much of their players and stifle their natural talents can only manage for so long. David Silva wouldnt be picked and wouldn't play for Mourinho. Where as Pellegrini will do anything to have Silva, De Bruyne et al playing their best football. Sometimes this costs the team. For me I prefer it.
If we miss the odd title because we were too open or too attacking, I'm ok with that.
It looks like after three seasons Pellegrini will(should) have two PL, probably a couple of cups and CL knockouts in all 3 years. All playing great open football. In the same time Mourinho will have won a league, a league cup and leave the club in a total mess.

Pellegrini has made some very telling changes in the last six weeks, changes that have been overlooked. His changes in Mönchengladbach changed the game. It's easy to forget that 6 weeks ago, Navas & Fernando were still dirty words at the Etihad.
He changed it against Newcastle, his gamble vs Seville at home, his tactics for the Derby & Seville were brilliant, had Mourinho shown us such a master class(tm) the media would never let us forget.

Pellegrini's attacking philosophy may cost us a few points here and there, experts can point to how he could have set up differently but what they can't point out is how detrimental that may be to confidence & moral of the players.

I'm sure Pellegrini knows, especially as most idiots in the TV studios know, park the bus with great players and you won't lose. It's obvious. What's not obvious is how that effects the players. If football managers become too concerned with their opponents, too concerned with stopping their opponents they forget what they are good at. If players are constantly being asked to ignore their talents, ignore their instincts they lose interest. They lose belief.

Asking Toure to play like Matic or asking Silva to work like a dog is like asking Picasso to paint your skirting boards. They can do it, fine, they'll probably do it once or twice but soon they'll ask why you are not using their talents. Finally they'll either do it half hearted or not at all. See Chelsea now.

As has been pointed out, Pellegrini has the highest win percentage in PL history of an manager after X amount of games, it's time everyone got behind him.
All managers everywhere make mistakes, annoy their fans because as fans we want to win every game. TV 'experts' will tell you, you need to win every game and how 'the bubble has burst' or 'all isn't right' after one loss. They don't ever consider the bigger picture. A good manager does. Pellegrini is a great manager.

Take a bow mate. That is an excellent post on why Pellegrini is a world class manager and perfect for us.

 

[Shaelumstash]

For me, under Pellegrini the highs will be high and the lows will be pretty high. I love the guy, not sure he can take us to the CL but I know he'll never take us to where Chelsea are now. Or the Rags for that matter.

He's not an egomaniac so I doubt he'll ever win everything, but he's a wonderful coach so he'll win plenty and we'll never have to deal with the aftermath of an ego maniac.
My prediction for this season.

PL winners,
CL, semi's.
LC, finalists.
FA Cup. Semi's.

Not being greedy and wouldn't be a surprise if we do a bit better. That to me is success.

Our squad is the best, that's because Pellegrini has the ability to keep everyone happy. Where as Mourinho who has a very similar squad has alienated half off it, sold those he didn't like. So our squad now looks much better. Everyone is happy, everyone on form or relatively close to their best form. Take Bony, he's clearly struggled for form and sharpness, Pellegrini has stuck by him, complimented him, as have some players and has given him opportunity to recover his form. Contrast that with Mourinho and Oscar, Falcao or the turtle with Depay or Di Maria. It would have been easy for Pellegrini to blame "no fit strikers" or say we needed more strikers. He doesn't he works hard with the player, keeps their confidence up(when many fans would replace him with a 19 year old) and now hopefully we'll see the benefit, I thought Bony was excellent Tuesday.

Managers like Mourinho who demand so much of their players and stifle their natural talents can only manage for so long. David Silva wouldnt be picked and wouldn't play for Mourinho. Where as Pellegrini will do anything to have Silva, De Bruyne et al playing their best football. Sometimes this costs the team. For me I prefer it.
If we miss the odd title because we were too open or too attacking, I'm ok with that.
It looks like after three seasons Pellegrini will(should) have two PL, probably a couple of cups and CL knockouts in all 3 years. All playing great open football. In the same time Mourinho will have won a league, a league cup and leave the club in a total mess.

Pellegrini has made some very telling changes in the last six weeks, changes that have been overlooked. His changes in Mönchengladbach changed the game. It's easy to forget that 6 weeks ago, Navas & Fernando were still dirty words at the Etihad.
He changed it against Newcastle, his gamble vs Seville at home, his tactics for the Derby & Seville were brilliant, had Mourinho shown us such a master class(tm) the media would never let us forget.

Pellegrini's attacking philosophy may cost us a few points here and there, experts can point to how he could have set up differently but what they can't point out is how detrimental that may be to confidence & moral of the players.

I'm sure Pellegrini knows, especially as most idiots in the TV studios know, park the bus with great players and you won't lose. It's obvious. What's not obvious is how that effects the players. If football managers become too concerned with their opponents, too concerned with stopping their opponents they forget what they are good at. If players are constantly being asked to ignore their talents, ignore their instincts they lose interest. They lose belief.

Asking Toure to play like Matic or asking Silva to work like a dog is like asking Picasso to paint your skirting boards. They can do it, fine, they'll probably do it once or twice but soon they'll ask why you are not using their talents. Finally they'll either do it half hearted or not at all. See Chelsea now.

As has been pointed out, Pellegrini has the highest win percentage in PL history of an manager after X amount of games, it's time everyone got behind him.
All managers everywhere make mistakes, annoy their fans because as fans we want to win every game. TV 'experts' will tell you, you need to win every game and how 'the bubble has burst' or 'all isn't right' after one loss. They don't ever consider the bigger picture. A good manager does. Pellegrini is a great manager.

Great post, and I think it's pretty fair and balanced. Mancini is a master at building a team from scratch, as he's proving again at Inter. Pellegrini is excellent at making sure the best squad in the league plays to their potential and keeping lots of big egos happy and on side.

The biggest criticisms of Pellegrini have been his stubborness, his tactical weakness and his inability to change games when they are not going well. I have to say he has turned a huge corner this season and has improved in all 3 of those areas.

We've played a totally new shape at Seville, it got the best out of the players available. That is all I have ever asked of him, play a system that suits the players and the team, don't try and shoe horn in unsuitable players.

He got it absolutely spot on in Seville, and he deserves huge credit for that.

Another example - Newcastle at home. He started De Bruyne through the middle and Silva on the right, and they were both ghastly. He switched them around so Silva was in his natural position, and we were unbelievable.

Seville at home, we were clearly having no luck breaking them down, so he took off Bony so we had all the players on the pitch that were suited to playing on the counter attack. We end up scoring a goal on the counter attack in the last minute to win the game. Brilliant management.

At the swamp, it was the most boring game I can remember going to for a long time. We just weren't on it going forward, we badly missed Silva. With 20 minutes to go in that game last season I think he would have thrown everything it at, gambled. This season he shut up shop. He knew a point was damaging for them, and not too bad for us. Certainly a better result for us than them.

I wouldn't want him to do it every week, but getting a point away at your direct rivals is not a bad result. We could look back on that in May as the result that won us the league.

I think that level of pragmatism has been missing in the last couple of seasons. Obviously results have been good, but they could have been even better if he'd approached the biggest games and adapted specifically for who we were playing, adapted to who we have available as opposed to stuffing square pegs in round holes.

I do believe we've got by far the best squad in the league, and possibly the 3rd or 4th best squad in Europe. So I think it's a reasonable target to win the league and get to the semi's of the Champions League. We're on course to do both, and I fully expect us to achieve both if Pellegrini carries on his performances from this season.