Discussion: Potential Pellegrini Replacements {merged}

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Did some "meaningless (Damocles, 2015)" statting for our top 3 candidates and came up with this:

Win %
Pep 73.8% (347 games)
Carlo 58.2% (962 games)
Klopp 49.2% (579 games)

Trophies
Pep 18
Carlo 17
Klopp 6.

Average Gross Spend per season (since 09/10):
Carlo £102.4m.
Pep £71.8m.
Klopp £28.4m.

Average Net Spend per season (since 09/10):
Carlo -£59.7m.
Pep -£33.4m.
Klopp -£11.8m.

All since 09/10:

Goals per Game:
Pep 2.63.
Carlo 1.89.
Klopp 1.84.

Conceded per Game:
Pep 0.74.
Carlo 0.9.
Klopp 1.2.

Longest winning streak:
Carlo-22 games.
Pep-13 games.
Klopp-10 games.

Longest losing streak:
Pep-2 games.
Carlo-3 games.
Klopp-3 games.

Bounce Back Rate (win following a loss):
Pep-71%.
Carlo-66%.
Klopp-60%.

Shots Per Game:
Carlo-17.8.
Pep-16.8.
Klopp-16.5.

On Target %:
Pep-43.2%.
Klopp-38.9%.
Carlo-37.3%.

Shots within penalty box:
Pep-59.1%.
Klopp-56.4%.
Carlo-54.7%.

Average Possession:
Pep-66.5%.
Carlo-56.9%.
Klopp-52.8%.

Successful Passes per game:
Pep-711.
Carlo-512.
Klopp-479.

Pass Success Rate:
Pep-88.1%
Carlo-84%.
Klopp-77.3%.

% of Successful Passes deemed Short Passes:
Pep-81.8%.
Carlo-75.3%.
Klopp-69.6%.

Successful Dribbles Per Game:
Pep-15.3.
Klopp-11.8.
Carlo-9.6.

Shots conceded per game:
Pep-7.8.
Klopp-9.7.
Carlo-11.6.

Clearances per game:
Pep-14.5.
Klopp-20.2.
Carlo-21.4.

Saves per game:
Pep & Klopp-2.2.
Carlo-2.6.

So as if it needed reiterating, Pep would bring a very different style than Carlo and Klopp, which is probably what is in the back of Txiki's mind. Pep's sides play the possession game, they retain possession, don't whack it up field and require extremely technically gifted players to make it work. They also play out from the back, are more solid defensively, and are more efficient with their shots, particularly around the penalty area.

Considering the resources at their disposal in that time period, Klopp is actually faring well against Carlo, and the stats give the feel that Carlo's sides lack the all-round tightness and maybe polish that a Pep side does. With the similarity in Klopp's and Carlo's stats, I think Klopp comes out rather well, obviously if we want to play a possession game then that area would have to improve, but maybe with the resources behind him that Carlo is afforded then he can work on that with better players.

You can see why Txiki favours Pep though, especially with the effectiveness of his sides in and around the box, and with us having Aguero up there who is as potent as anybody.

 

[IWasHere]

Are we really saying that Txiki is fireproof in terms of his own performance?

Surely, if we are prepared to wait 12 months because of his relationship with Txiki, then what happens if he fucks up on the market again this summer and the team and Pellegrini sink like a stone?

Txiki's judgement has already been called into question.

I would find it highly doubtful he would retain his own job if he wasted £100m plus without any discernable improvement.

Pep won't come if his mate ain't around anymore, that's the folly of trying to hope everything will just fall into place.

Txiki needs Pep this summer to make him 'fireproof'.

In 12 months time, who knows if Txiki will still be at the club?

Hope there is something in this TH because we need to act now/summer as this is a massive summer for us in terms of changing the team.

Either we get Pep for next season or Klopp or Ancelotti no more let's wait and see

i would hoof txiki right now.
i would forget pep right now.
i would sack pellers right now

and i would appoint klopp. right now.

We're making it hard for ourselves. Fuck knows why we haven't appointed him yet.

 

[OB1]

In terms of those stats above, the possession and passing are the key ones in terms of City's core values: Klopp would need to make changes to his approach. That is a question mark. He should be able to develop and grow as a coach but is it a change of spots?

 

[Mancini Manus Domini]

I'm sorely tempted to go for Klop given the poor season we have just had but say we do, and Pep turns up at United or Arsenal in a year or two, then how strong will they become?

As fans we have a tendency to look at the immediate and not the long term future of the club. If Pep is committed to join us in a year from now we should stick to our plan. I trust those in charge to get this right.

 

[ONTHERUNWITHTHAKSIN]

Hope there is something in this TH because we need to act now/summer as this is a massive summer for us in terms of changing the team.

Either we get Pep for next season or Klopp or Ancelotti no more let's wait and see

i would hoof txiki right now.
i would forget pep right now.
i would sack pellers right now

and i would appoint klopp. right now.

We're making it hard for ourselves. Fuck knows why we haven't appointed him yet.

My issue now is if we go on and win our remaining games we are just papering over the cracks.

I hope we do win our remaining games but also hope the board are not fooled by it.

 

[IWasHere]

I'm sorely tempted to go for Klop given the poor season we have just had but say we do, and Pep turns up at United or Arsenal in a year or two, then how strong will they become?

As fans we have a tendency to look at the immediate and not the long term future of the club. If Pep is committed to join us in a year from now we should stick to our plan. I trust those in charge to get this right.

And what if pep decides he's not gonna come to us and ends up extending his contract and then klopp will be at a different club I.e. arsenal? Then what, we get sabella? No point risking it imo get klopp now, it's not like he's a shit manager. He did well at dortmund imagine what he can do to us

 

[JustAnotherCityFan]

I've been thinking on this a LOT on my last shift (I work nights so have a lot of thinking time!) Until now I've considered the whole hire Benitez, wait a year for Pep idea seemed like the best way for the club to go but now I'm more leaning towards the side of Tolmie and think we should just give the guy an ultimatum, now or never. He has more to lose than us imo.

Firstly this idea hinges on Ancelotti being available, which is likely as there is not a chance Barca will mess up in the league now and I believe Barca and Bayern can beat them in Champs league (Bayern will play like demons after the embarrassment last season and Barca have shown their superiority over them recently).

So with Ancelotti as the fall back guy, we should go to Pep, tell him we want him at the end of THIS season or we move on. Now Pep strikes me as the sort of guy who strives for perfection, he wants to be the best. What better time to come to England and prove his worth than on the back of a dominant Mourinho season who wins the league at a canter. Must be tough to resist trying to beat Mourinho to a title in his own back yard, maybe even getting him sacked in the process. After all there's only so many times you can win the Bundesliga in a one horse race before the novelty wears off.

If that wasn't enough for him to consider it, he then needs to think what his options will be at the end of next season with our offer off the table. Does he sign a new contract with Bayern? All he will have to look forward to is the champions league every year if so, the rest takes care of itself, nobody will be impressed if he wins 5 Bundesliga's in a row. There's Juve or PSG possibly but he'd be in the same situation he's in now, one horse leagues.

It just leaves the premier league where nobody is now available. He can hope Van Gaal has a bad season next year which is looking unlikely now the players have adapted to his system. Or perhaps he could wish for Wenger to retire but then he's taking over the weakest squad of the top 4 and faces the almost impossible task of challenging Mourinho Chelsea, Van Gaal United and Ancelotti City teams.

There's a lot of uncertainty he'd be facing just to stay one more year at Bayern so why should he be holding all the cards? Txiki should just walk up to him, say we're buying Pogba and Sterling, two of the hottest young prospects around and a few more Pep wants and lets take this title back from his arch enemy. Pogba wouldn't turn Pep down, he's box office.

And if Pep calls our bluff or says he's not coming we still end up with a fantastic manager in Ancelotti.

 

[Marvin]

Real Madrid are 2 points behind Barca and in the semi-finals of the CL. They're not imploding.

We know Real Madrid hire and fire but it's far from a foregone conclusion that Ancelotti will be sacked.

The probability of a Pellegrini final year edges upwards

 

[emiratblu]

There are four candidates, Pellers, Ancellotti, Vieira and Benitez

Pellers, no, he isn't staying because there will be no Pep and consequently we need a new plan
Ancellotti, quite possible if RM don't win anything this season
Vieira, big risk but maybe one worth taking if we think he has it on a long term basis
Benitez, outsider but he could do a job

On the basis Pep is playing us and wont be coming and Klopp doesnt fit the profile, it has to be Ancellotti
He is probably the second best manager in the world and if you cant get best get second best.

I think he will relish the chance to go up against Abramovitch and Maureen as well as pushing Pep as an added incentive

If we do get the second best in the world we really cant complain

 

[kalouk]

I think some people are being unrealistic about the amount of power we have. Pep and Carlo are in very good jobs and will be wanted by most other clubs. We are assuming if a,b,c situation happens they will be sacked but this may not be the case. If we go handing out ultimatums to Pep for example he is hardly in a weak position he's just as likely to refuse knowing he could have the pick of most clubs in the world. Ancelotti IF he leaves which isn't guaranteed he could go on to win the champions league and La Liga is in the same position. Even Benitez who some are looking at as fall back option maybe we could get him but if the Liverpool job suddenly became available I wouldn't be at all surprised if he choose them over us. Klopp is another maybe but he may already know where he is going. He's being linked to Arsenal, who knows Wenger may be retiring and he is already lined up to replace him. Some people are making up scenario's to fit what suits them but surely we must recognise that the top managers are not going to dance to our tune because we think they should. I am not thinking small time or thinking we aren't good enough for them but I think we need to remember a lot of other clubs can offer the same. This situation is not as black and white as some are painting it.

 

[CityFan94]

Klopp ticks all the boxes for me.

- Plays attractive, exciting football

- Develop young players

- Made a Champion's League final

- Good big game record (his record against Bayern was exceptional until this season)

- His teams press high up the pitch

If Klopp is willing to come to us this summer, we have to get him. I think we'll really regret it if not. I do like Pellegrini and think he would do better with a more balanced and younger squad next season, but Klopp is an upgrade IMO.

The idea of Pep was great 3 years ago. "Pellegrini and Guardiola's contracts are both for 3 years, Pep will replace Pellegrini in 2016." It sounds fantastic on paper, but not in the real world. Football doesn't work like that, planning managers 3 years ahead is almost impossible. If we wait for Guardiola for another year and then he doesn't come, who else is there? Realistically, who would there be?

I'd go as far as saying Guardiola and Klopp, along with Mourinho, are the three best managers in Europe. I don't think we can afford to pass on one of the top 3 managers in Europe.

Get Klopp.

 

[Paulmcfc2703]

I'm sorely tempted to go for Klop given the poor season we have just had but say we do, and Pep turns up at United or Arsenal in a year or two, then how strong will they become?

As fans we have a tendency to look at the immediate and not the long term future of the club. If Pep is committed to join us in a year from now we should stick to our plan. I trust those in charge to get this right.

When do you draw the line then?

I believe this summer we should be looking at Sterling/Bale to give us an extra dimension to our play. But what if in 2 years Messi signs for United. Do we not sign them incase Leo comes available?

 

[hgblue]

Going to be lots of disappointed blue mooners in my opinion, when we return in July with MP still in charge, some on this thread might need Samaritan's number.

I'll be one of them. I think it would be a huge mistake to keep Pellegrini.

I totally agree, if we keep Pellegrini for another season we potentially write off a whole year under the stewardship of a manager who would know it was his last year, as would the players in the current squad as well as any additional players coming in. I'm not sure that would increase the much needed motivation which has sadly lacked this season.

It would be pointless letting him have a say in the next two transfer windows as well when there is obviously some long term planning and rebuilding to be done.

And, if the grand plan is to wait to snare Pep next year and that doesn't come to fruition what do we do then?

I would hope we haven't sacked Pellegrini yet as we owe it to him as a mark of respect for the achievements of last year and maybe after the last two sackings we are hoping to part ways without the club/owner looking like a pantomime villan. I hope this is the case as the thought of another year with the sort of apathy we've witnessed of late is too much to even consider.

Can you imagine how it'll be if he does stay and we get off to a poor start next term? No, neither can I!

Get Champion's League, get rid, get Klopp.

Just about sums it up nicely.

 

[Sergi0 Na5r1]

Sadly it's only the Sun:

City Watch @City_Watch · 11 hours ago

The Sun: Real Madrid boss Carlo Ancelotti is keen on a move to City this summer if he leaves the Bernabéu.


And I will say his chances of staying have increased with them playing Juve instead of Barca or Bayern. Odds are Real should make it to the final.

 

[OB1]

I have a feeling that City are still pinning their hopes on getting Pep.

 

[Ray78]

I have a feeling that City are still pinning their hopes on getting Pep.

Guardola may sign his new contract then all bets are off. I am stating the obvious here but we will find out what is going to happen after the end of season meeting with all parties. None of us can really predict with any clarity of what that outcome is going to be.

 

[blueinsa]

I have a feeling that City are still pinning their hopes on getting Pep.

Thats fine but Txiki will live or die dependant on his success in getting him here this summer imo.

 

[OB1]

I have a feeling that City are still pinning their hopes on getting Pep.

Thats fine but Txiki will live or die dependant on his success in getting him here this summer imo.

That is certainly a real possibilty.

 

[OB1]

I have a feeling that City are still pinning their hopes on getting Pep.

Guardola may sign his new contract then all bets are off. I am stating the obvious here but we will find out what is going to happen after the end of season meeting with all parties. None of us can really predict with any clarity of what that outcome is going to be.

We can't predict that but I do think Bayern are concerned about Pep's intentions.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

I have a feeling that City are still pinning their hopes on getting Pep.

Guardola may sign his new contract then all bets are off. I am stating the obvious here but we will find out what is going to happen after the end of season meeting with all parties. None of us can really predict with any clarity of what that outcome is going to be.

We can't predict that but I do think Bayern are concerned about Pep's intentions.

i really want to believe, but city arent yet bayern, barca or real madrid, why would he come to city, thats the question i keep asking myself