Do you believe the Universe is infinite?

[Damocles]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Some head scratching answers in this thread.

Three things to add:

1. The Universe being infinite in size does not imply that every possible thing has happened in it. I'm not sure why people think it does.

2. Infinity isn't a mind blowing concept and you deal with it every day. How many numbers are between 2 and 3? How many decimals are in pi?

3. The Universe doesn't need a beginning and an end. I explain this all the time on here and it's a bit mind bending, but the idea that something needs a beginning and an end is something called causality which is a law of physics. You cannot break causality because then information would be able to travel faster than light which would break a different law of physics. The law of causality only holds true when time flows forwards - if time were to flow backwards then the idea that everything had to have a creator would be a strange idea. Now remove the concept of time entirely and nothing needs a creator. This is because causality, the idea that things need a beginning and an end is actually a law of physics that only holds true of time is flowing and is flowing in the direction that we think it should be. The moment of the Big Bang was the moment that time was created and started flowing. Causality is a law of the Universe and thus in the moment of creation of the Universe doesn't apply. There is no need for a beginning.

I always thought that there was a point shortly after the big bang that things moved faster than the speed of light?
it was during few split seconds of the initial expansion of the universe

Great observation actually. You're correct that the expansion of the Universe seems to have gone faster than the speed of light.

However the speed of light is only the speed limit of objects within the Universe that hold mass. The Universe itself was the thing expanding. The important thing is that expansion of something is different from movement/motion of something.

If you make an obstacle course made out of bouncy castles and set a speed limit of 5 mph, those castles can inflate or deflate without changing your speed limit. The distance between the beginning and end may have changed but the points themselves have not really moved relative to the bouncy castle. It's sort of like how some galaxies are getting further away from each other; they aren't moving away in terms of motion but the spacetime fabric that is between them is expanding

 

[whp.blue]

So at the point the Universe was expanding it contained no mass?

sorry to ask such a stupid question but I can never quite get my head around these things

 

[TangerineSteve17]

I wonder what happens when the mysteries are solved. If the universe is proved to infinite in the future, assuming mankind (or whatever has evolved from us) is alive. When belief in God isn't even mentioned in the dustiest history book/or ebook rather.

I reckon we will get further and further detached from others. Even parents, we say your birth is random chance anyway even now. There might no be parents/friends in the sense we think of now anyway.
We've always been alone in our own heads anyway, that wouldn't be new.

What if there comes a point where accidents simply do not happen, where people stay in doors, where everything is equal and fair, we predict the weather, circumvent nature and could predict lifespan down to the month. Do we remain creatures of whim?

'People' could get so despondent that there might be a phenomena where by they put themselves in mortal danger, with only the slimmest chance of survival. In the hope that if they are 'saved' or survive they can derive purpose from it, in a purposeless existence. Survivors would sit around telling their tale perpetuating some Devine plan that they think is original.

It would have to be carefully thought out though, because I imagine suicide would be seen as madness (people understanding that there is no need to rush impending nothingness). How you balance a seemingly suicidal act with one that can also be ambiguous enough to present the person with meaning (if survived) - i don't know.

Maybe something would be set up without your knowledge.. A test of instinct for everyone at a certain time. It would have to be convoluted enough to carry the illusion that is was random. Don't have the right instinct? Too bad.

 

[Jim Tolmie's Underpants]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Actually, a spatially flat universe can be characteristic of either a finite or an infinite universe. When we say that space is “flat,” we mean it obeys Euclidean geometry: parallel lines never intersect, and the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees.

 

[TheGibralter]

Course it ain't finite. A bunch of Geordies built a brick wall at the end of it during the 80's. Most of it is still there.

 

[Ban-jani]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Some head scratching answers in this thread.

Three things to add:

1. The Universe being infinite in size does not imply that every possible thing has happened in it. I'm not sure why people think it does.

2. Infinity isn't a mind blowing concept and you deal with it every day. How many numbers are between 2 and 3? How many decimals are in pi?

3. The Universe doesn't need a beginning and an end. I explain this all the time on here and it's a bit mind bending, but the idea that something needs a beginning and an end is something called causality which is a law of physics. You cannot break causality because then information would be able to travel faster than light which would break a different law of physics. The law of causality only holds true when time flows forwards - if time were to flow backwards then the idea that everything had to have a creator would be a strange idea. Now remove the concept of time entirely and nothing needs a creator. This is because causality, the idea that things need a beginning and an end is actually a law of physics that only holds true of time is flowing and is flowing in the direction that we think it should be. The moment of the Big Bang was the moment that time was created and started flowing. Causality is a law of the Universe and thus in the moment of creation of the Universe doesn't apply. There is no need for a beginning.

I don't understand your point number 1 in reference to what I said mate.

Surely if it is infinite then eventually you will come across every eventuality?

I am quite amateur in this field but I am interested.

 

[ancoats]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Actually, a spatially flat universe can be characteristic of either a finite or an infinite universe. When we say that space is “flat,” we mean it obeys Euclidean geometry: parallel lines never intersect, and the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees.

maybe the geometry of universe is just illusion likes the sun has on earth makes the sky look blue
if time is set in space to the speed of earth moving around the sun then man will never find the answers but I feel that space and time are not real

if we could make a big very fast spinning spaceship in space would the gravity pull make its own time and would it build itself up and go faster and faster so the speed it makes is greater than going in a straight line making it slow down

much like the earth gravity pull if you could match the speed would it mean time stood still meaning you could move around in space without losing anytime so from start to finish would still be the same time. then could you then pop over to mars or any of the other planets

 

[TangerineSteve17]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Some head scratching answers in this thread.

Three things to add:

1. The Universe being infinite in size does not imply that every possible thing has happened in it. I'm not sure why people think it does.

I don't understand your point number 1 in reference to what I said mate.

Surely if it is infinite then eventually you will come across every eventuality?

I am quite amateur in this field but I am interested.

I might be leading you astray mate but I think your infinity doesn't mean the same as Damocles'. Einstein said the universe is infinite before these multiverse multi-world theories came up. So I assume in his relativity he meant because the universe is ever-expanding, then what is it expanding in to? It seems right to say whether there is a boundary or not, it is infinite.

I could be wrong about the last bit, but infinity doesn't mean everything happens infinitely.

 

[Damocles]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Actually, a spatially flat universe can be characteristic of either a finite or an infinite universe. When we say that space is “flat,” we mean it obeys Euclidean geometry: parallel lines never intersect, and the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees.

If the Universe has 0 curvature and finite then that would imply an "edge" which wouldn't be consistent with the expansion of the Universe as we see it. It would mean that there would be one part of the Universe that isn't expanding in all directions as it would be a boundary. By definition the boundary could not be expanding in the direction where the boundary ends on all axis. The model of the Universe we hold is that it is it is homogenous and the same in every place, a finite Universe would imply a difference in the laws of physics in one place.

So whilst a Universe with 0 curvature (or "flat") CAN have a possibility of strange and finite topologies like a hypertorus, it would be an unnecessary complication to the model that is currently held. The simplest answer is that it is infinite which is why a flat topology implies it rather than proves it.

 

[Ban-jani]

Current scientific evidence from WMAP suggests the Universe is flat, which implies it to be infinite.

Some head scratching answers in this thread.

Three things to add:

1. The Universe being infinite in size does not imply that every possible thing has happened in it. I'm not sure why people think it does.

I don't understand your point number 1 in reference to what I said mate.

Surely if it is infinite then eventually you will come across every eventuality?

I am quite amateur in this field but I am interested.

I might be leading you astray mate but I think your infinity doesn't mean the same as Damocles'. Einstein said the universe is infinite before these multiverse multi-world theories came up. So I assume in his relativity he meant because the universe is ever-expanding, then what is it expanding in to? It seems right to say whether there is a boundary or not, it is infinite.

I could be wrong about the last bit, but infinity doesn't mean everything happens infinitely.

Cheers pal.

So to simplify, when it's said the universe is infinite, it means it will forever expand?

I'm keen to see what Damocles has to say also.