dickie davies
Well-Known Member
And the alternative is.....
At least with Harris there's a chance she will listen to sage advice from experienced Whitehouse people
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Donald Trump
- Thread starter kaz7
- Start date
At least with Harris there's a chance she will listen to sage advice from experienced Whitehouse people
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 18,632
- Team supported
- FC Zurich (and city of course)
'Whitehouse' you say? Just to be clear, do you mean the seat of US govt or the 70s /80s Paul Raymond jazz mag of the same name? I only ask as I had a similar misunderstanding in the 'men only' thread.And the alternative is.....
At least with Harris there's a chance she will listen to sage advice from experienced Whitehouse people
SebastianBlue
President, International Julian Alvarez Fan Club
- Joined
- 25 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 57,736
Just a reminder that there is no “middle ground”, “centrist” position with extremist anti-democratic demagogues.
You either actively oppose or support them.
Indifference, equivocation, or silence is the same as a support.
That does not mean you have to actively support Harris, or any other candidate. But if you do not actively oppose Trump, you are implicitly supporting him and all that he stands for, for the same reason that staying silent about racism, or sexism, or homophobia, or transphobia, or antisemitism, or Islamophobia that you directly observe is implicit support of it (all horrible bigoted stances Trump regularly espouses, by the way).
If that is what you want to do, then so be it—you are, of course, free to do that in an open, democratic society (unless Trump is elected, anyway).
But don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by attempting to claim you are a “centrist” or “just see more than one viewpoint at a time” by not denouncing and actively opposing Trump, MAGA, and the beliefs inherent to that movement. Absolutely no reasonable person would accept as valid another person holding such a position toward the KKK, or neo-Nazis, or Putin. And Trump and MAGA are absolutely on par with those ideological groups and affiliated leaders.
I’ll leave this quote that has resonated with me since I first read the sermon from which it originates when I was a young man (along with Letter From Birmingham Jail, which I think should be read in every classroom in the US and UK):
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter…
…A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true".
Trump has been morally and ethically dead for decades. And anyone that supports him, or merely stays ‘neutral’ as Trump spouts hate, amplifies nonsensical conspiracies, and mongers fear, all while continually signalling he has nothing but contempt for inclusive, democratic values, are complicit.
You either actively oppose or support them.
Indifference, equivocation, or silence is the same as a support.
That does not mean you have to actively support Harris, or any other candidate. But if you do not actively oppose Trump, you are implicitly supporting him and all that he stands for, for the same reason that staying silent about racism, or sexism, or homophobia, or transphobia, or antisemitism, or Islamophobia that you directly observe is implicit support of it (all horrible bigoted stances Trump regularly espouses, by the way).
If that is what you want to do, then so be it—you are, of course, free to do that in an open, democratic society (unless Trump is elected, anyway).
But don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by attempting to claim you are a “centrist” or “just see more than one viewpoint at a time” by not denouncing and actively opposing Trump, MAGA, and the beliefs inherent to that movement. Absolutely no reasonable person would accept as valid another person holding such a position toward the KKK, or neo-Nazis, or Putin. And Trump and MAGA are absolutely on par with those ideological groups and affiliated leaders.
I’ll leave this quote that has resonated with me since I first read the sermon from which it originates when I was a young man (along with Letter From Birmingham Jail, which I think should be read in every classroom in the US and UK):
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter…
…A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true".
Trump has been morally and ethically dead for decades. And anyone that supports him, or merely stays ‘neutral’ as Trump spouts hate, amplifies nonsensical conspiracies, and mongers fear, all while continually signalling he has nothing but contempt for inclusive, democratic values, are complicit.
SWP's back
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 89,078
IF you believe that the polls are correct this time (as opposed to massively over estimating the GoP vote as they have done for the last 4-6 years)It’s too close to call by everyone’s account in the EC.
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 18,632
- Team supported
- FC Zurich (and city of course)
Does this apply also to non US citizens with no voting rights in the US?Just a reminder that there is no “middle ground”, “centrist” position with extremist anti-democratic demagogues.
You either actively oppose or support them.
Indifference, equivocation, or silence is the same as a support.
That does not mean you have to actively support Harris, or any other candidate. But if you do not actively oppose Trump, you are implicitly supporting him and all that he stands for, for the same reason that staying silent about racism, or sexism, or homophobia, or antisemitism, or Islamophobia that you directly observe is implicit support of it (all horrible bigoted stances Trump regularly espouses, by the way).
If that is what you want to do, then so be it—you are, of course, free to do that in an open, democratic society (unless Trump is elected, anyway).
But don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by attempting to claim you are a “centrist” or “just see more than one viewpoint at a time” by not denouncing and actively opposing Trump, MAGA, and the beliefs inherent to that movement. Absolutely no reasonable person would accept as valid another person holding such a position toward the KKK, or neo-Nazis, or Putin. And Trump and MAGA are absolutely on par with those ideological groups and affiliated leaders.
I’ll leave this quote that has resonated with me since I first read the sermon from which it originates when I was a young man (along with Letter From Birmingham Jail, which I think should be read in every classroom in the US and UK):
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter…
…A man dies when he refuses to stand up for that which is right. A man dies when he refuses to stand up for justice. A man dies when he refuses to take a stand for that which is true".
Trump has been morally and ethically dead for decades. And anyone that supports him, or merely stays ‘neutral’ as Trump spouts hate, amplifies nonsensical conspiracies, and mongers fear, all while continually signalling he has nothing but contempt for inclusive, democratic values, are complicit.
Also, is this an official thing or just your opinion?
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 12 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 18,632
- Team supported
- FC Zurich (and city of course)
I think their electoral college system (which I won't pretend to fully understand) is the most likely thing to cause a disparity between the (popular) vote result and the election result. Polls are imho like bookmakers odds - a useful but not necessarily accurate guide to form.IF you believe that the polls are correct this time (as opposed to massively over estimating the GoP vote as they have done for the last 4-6 years)
SWP's back
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 89,078
You should sit down.You should do standup.
Re. who has a moral conscience, etc. I've been out in rural PA on & off, Trump country, where the bars are full of rednecks. To my surprise the only one of my anti-Trump notions that found any kind of support is one I've posted on here before, that never having had a dog or cat to take care of in his life shows DT's inability to feel compassion for the vulnerable. I said this to a stout MAGA couple recently and while the husband sneered and wanted to bash me I heard his missus say "wait, Eb. (whatever Eb was short for) I never thought of it that way afore."
She really did say afore.
She really did say afore.
I'm not hot on the alternative. But seeing as we are scraping the barrel, I'd take Trump.And the alternative is.....
At least with Harris there's a chance she will listen to sage advice from experienced Whitehouse people