Dzeko, Tevez and the system

[BosnianDiamond]

IMO, we need a traditional 4-4-2 with plenty of wing support from Silva and Johnson. I'm just not sure if Yaya and De Jong are sufficient in the middle.

........................Hart......................

Boateng....Kompany....Toure....Kolarov

Silva.....Yaya.......De Jong......Johnson?

................Tevez........Dzeko.............

 

[wanderer72]

Silva needs to play more centrally than that, plus there is little point in his falling back as he wouldn't be able to do much defensively any way.

At the same time, assuming a good flow behind him, there is no need for him to fall back in order to pick the ball either.

Silva and Johnson together is quite aggressive, i.e. may suit some situations very well and be terrible defensively in the others as well.

"THE right XI" for all the matches simply doesn't exist in any good manager's vocabulary.

 

[ST Coleridge]

"THE right XI" for all the matches simply doesn't exist in any good manager's vocabulary.

Yeah, maybe it's better to put our musings in a bit of context -

Defensive:

........JH......
MR..KT..VK..PZ
......DJ..GB.....
DS....YYT....JM
........CT........

'Normal' (still a bit defensive ;)):

........JH......
PZ..KT..VK..AK
.YYT..DJ..GB..
.....DS...CT....
........ED........

Attacking:

........JH.......
PZ..KT..VK..AK
......DJ..JM
AJ.....DS.....CT
........ED

 

[Mancio]

I would ask a simple question to those who know Dzeko:

Who were the wingers when he was playing and scoring at wolfsburg?

 

[wanderer72]

I would ask a simple question to those who know Dzeko:

Who were the wingers when he was playing and scoring at wolfsburg?

Wolfsburg played mostly without classic wingers... Christian Gentner (now back in Stuttgart, he was apparently a longer term loan) used to jump into that role occasionally (and was OK, really good at times), Makoto Hasebe (same thing) as well, though less consistent. This season Dejagah (terrible winger, probably an OK striker) got a few more minutes than last because Gentner left, and Mandzukic (half-cooked winger, originally a striker). Wolfsburg basically does a lot of improvising, as their bench is, well, really, really poor which makes their successes even more impressive, in my view.

In the Bosnian national team, no one really, although I believe there was an attempt to turn Ibisevic of Hoffenheim into a winger (didn't work out too well).

 

[Mancio]

I would ask a simple question to those who know Dzeko:

Who were the wingers when he was playing and scoring at wolfsburg?

Wolfsburg played mostly without classic wingers... Christian Gentner (now back in Stuttgart, he was apparently a longer term loan) used to jump into that role occasionally (and was OK, really good at times), Makoto Hasebe (same thing) as well, though less consistent. This season Dejagah (terrible winger, probably an OK striker) got a few more minutes than last because Gentner left, and Mandzukic (half-cooked winger, originally a striker). Wolfsburg basically does a lot of improvising, as their bench is, well, really, really poor which makes their successes even more impressive, in my view.

In the Bosnian national team, no one really, although I believe there was an attempt to turn Ibisevic of Hoffenheim into a winger (didn't work out too well).

So you're saying that Dzeko has become Dzeko playing at teams who were playing without wingers?

and , maybe , without 4-4-2 too ??

and , maybe , teams who where playing diamond mid ???

thats incredible !!!

 

[wanderer72]

Wolfsburg played mostly without classic wingers... Christian Gentner (now back in Stuttgart, he was apparently a longer term loan) used to jump into that role occasionally (and was OK, really good at times), Makoto Hasebe (same thing) as well, though less consistent. This season Dejagah (terrible winger, probably an OK striker) got a few more minutes than last because Gentner left, and Mandzukic (half-cooked winger, originally a striker). Wolfsburg basically does a lot of improvising, as their bench is, well, really, really poor which makes their successes even more impressive, in my view.

In the Bosnian national team, no one really, although I believe there was an attempt to turn Ibisevic of Hoffenheim into a winger (didn't work out too well).

So you're saying that Dzeko has become Dzeko playing at teams who were playing without wingers?

and , maybe , without 4-4-2 too ??

and , maybe , teams who where playing diamond mid ???

thats incredible !!!

They were playing diamond mid most of the time due to Misimovic who is another genius in that respect, btw, Diego (you probably know him from his Juve debacle) doesn't even compare...

Yes, pretty much incredible, and that's why I appreciate Dzeko this much! He really is a diamond, Koh-i-Noor size as well, it's not only a melodramatic commentator soap opera kind of a thing as you'd expect.

 

[Mancio]

So you're saying that Dzeko has become Dzeko playing at teams who were playing without wingers?

and , maybe , without 4-4-2 too ??

and , maybe , teams who where playing diamond mid ???

thats incredible !!!

They were playing diamond mid most of the time due to Misimovic who is another genius in that respect, btw, Diego (you probably know him from his Juve debacle) doesn't even compare...

Yes, pretty much incredible, and that's why I appreciate Dzeko this much! He really is a diamond, Koh-i-Noor size as well, it's not only a melodramatic commentator soap opera kind of a thing as you'd expect.

so you are now saying the users here who are saying "dzeko need to play in a 4-4-2 " are just fucking idiots with zero football knowledge level ??

oh my god

 

[wanderer72]

They were playing diamond mid most of the time due to Misimovic who is another genius in that respect, btw, Diego (you probably know him from his Juve debacle) doesn't even compare...

Yes, pretty much incredible, and that's why I appreciate Dzeko this much! He really is a diamond, Koh-i-Noor size as well, it's not only a melodramatic commentator soap opera kind of a thing as you'd expect.

so you are now saying the users here who are saying "dzeko need to play in a 4-4-2 " are just fucking idiots with zero football knowledge level ??

oh my god

I'm shocked too :)

Seriously though, since Misimovic left and Diego was brought in, Wolfsburg did change over to a classic 4-4-2. Dzeko, as much as I could tell, didn't mind at all, he just kept banging them in, although Diego later started mimicking Tevez a bit, I'm sure you'll know what I mean ;).

I do think, though, that having him as a lone striker would take 4-5 matches to really get used to, anything else that is sensible he can play in his sleep.

This is why I keep saying he needs a bloody SYSTEM, get one, actually PLAY ACCORDINGLY, and he'l turn into a goal-scoring animal, so we'll both be able to laugh about the "EPL is very special, football is very different here" nonsense. Btw, I love how smartly Mancini is using a similar line. ;)

 

[byronic]

Well, Wolfsburg's Marcel Schafer is a LB/WB but he makes marauding runs all the way and he made a lot of great crosses for Dzeko et al.
During Dzeko's rise, the key player was the playmaker, his fellow Bosnian Misimovic (now frozen out at Galatasaray, after some obscure problem with coach Hagi -who apparently minded Misimovic's gum-chewing) - a preternaturally gifted passer of the ball, in the Xavi mould. He holds the record for assists in the Bundesliga (20). He played just behind the two strikers, so most of Wolfsburg's play came from the middle. But Schafer and Riether (RB) were important too, as crossers.