Dzeko, Tevez and the system

FantasyIreland said:
Mancio said:
cant understand what you have against this

boateng-----kolo-------kompany------kolarov

-------yaya--------de jong------barry-----

--------------------silva--------------------

--------------------------tevez------------
-------------------dzeko--------------------
Looks great on paper,in reality it lacks urgency and invention especially from the 3 midfielders,the two full backs also lack the pace and quality to get forward and support them and the front line.

We simply don't have the quality and pace of the other current top 4 teams to play the same system and be successful with it.

Sorry mate, but when it comes to pace, bollocks. The third goal vs the Wolves: YaYa to Dzeko, Dzeko to Tevez, Tevez to Dzeko, Dzeko making a poor chap look like a bloody idiot, pass to YaYa, YaYa's clinical finish... How many seconds did it last, from roughly the edge of the City box to the net?

When it comes to urgency, it a discipline and gelling issue, nothing more. When it comes to quality, you really must be joking.
 
Sorry Mancio but DeJong in his role, is top notch, it's the other midfield 2 to focus on, as they are ones needing to be more creative. Yaya's runs will not always be successful, but I think he's proving his worth. It's the Barry/Milner one for me that needs addressing.

This is assuming a fluid top 3 of Tevez, Silva, Dzeko and Balo.
 
---------------------Hart--------------------
Zaba------Toure------------Kompany-----Kolarov

-------------De Jong-----Yaya--------------

-------Silva--------Tevez------Balotelli------

-------------------Dzecko------------------

Width from fullbacks, protection/cover from defensive midfielders, attackers interchangeable...

Really doesn't take rocket science to work out where mancinis goin with his formation
 
ponyntrap said:
---------------------Hart--------------------
Zaba------Toure------------Kompany-----Kolarov

-------------De Jong-----Yaya--------------

-------Silva--------Tevez------Balotelli------

-------------------Dzecko------------------

Width from fullbacks, protection/cover from defensive midfielders, attackers interchangeable...

Really doesn't take rocket science to work out where mancinis goin with his formation

Honestly, I doubt it, but if he is then City is going to Europa League again.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Great post DD.

You've hit the nail on the head by stating we need to play to our strengths,and,given our current best players,that has to be 442.
Yes it may involve leaving certain players out but otherwise we are restricting ourselves and performing our old favourite of putting square pegs in round holes.....

My only reservation of the above team is Silva out wide,i don't think he has enough pace to be effective on the wing,so i'd move him inside alongside DJ or Yaya and either make a new purchase or try Balo(when fit) out there.
Alternatively bench Silva,give DJ and Yaya the chance to shine and make the purchase.

I'd also play Zaba at rightback!

The Villa defeat could actually end up a blessing.

I suppose I agree with Silva not being pacy enough for being out wide but is it just a bit too much of a risk to have two men in the centre, one being Silva?

In the end, I think having David Silva available to us is going to end up posing the manager his biggest problem. Whilst 4-4-2, I think, favours us a team with the attacking players we have at our disposal, it doesn't favour Silva.

There's going to come a point here where he has to decide whether we build a team to suit him or whether we make him fit in to the team formation that suits the rest of the players more.

The question is, is David Silva so good that we build an entire team to suit? On the basis that any injury could come along at any second. I would suggest no individual should ever have a team built around him.

I wouldn't like to be in Mancini's shoes at the moment. He has some massive choices ahead and they have to be made pronto.
 
wanderer72 said:
Sorry mate, but when it comes to pace, bollocks. The third goal vs the Wolves: YaYa to Dzeko, Dzeko to Tevez, Tevez to Dzeko, Dzeko making a poor chap look like a bloody idiot, pass to YaYa, YaYa's clinical finish... How many seconds did it last, from roughly the edge of the City box to the net?

When it comes to urgency, it a discipline and gelling issue, nothing more. When it comes to quality, you really must be joking.

Well that's one example. Name another!!!

Our midfield trio is the slowest out of the big clubs by a million miles.

We may have pace in other areas but it's the midfield that dictates the temp of the game. We play at a slower tempo than more or less anyone in the country. Now that might be the manager's choice but to try and pretend that we are a pacey side is just silly.
 
I still cant belive Mancini did take A.Johnson out, i just cant understand it. AJ was in brilliant form, its not only about his Off.Atts, theres more things as hes Defence Qualitiys.

I would also suggest all people, football isnt just 3 4 Names and you can win Games like hell. You cant put Hart, Silva, Tevez and they do the Job alone. Its not like that, never was and will never be.

Here is mine form. about the Gameplay:

---------------------Hart--------------------

Zaba------Toure------------Kompany-----Kolarov

-------------De Jong-----Silva--------------

--Yaya--------------------------- Johnson---

-----------Tevez-------Dzeko--------------

AJ left, bcos he is leftfooted, which means he will play the ball faster, bring crosses directly. He doesnt need to stop and switch the Ball to his Left Leg.

Yaya will play not a classic Right Winger Position, he could be a Connection to De Jong and Bring boost at Defending quickly. If Yaya goes then to help out, Tevez could switch on Right Wingers Position.

Thats a directly Formations Change to 4-3-3.

Silva Role would be the same as Luka Modrics at TittyHam. Mancini should start bringing the Position to him closer. Its obivus Silva want to Play with the Ball, there is no better Position for it as on the classic DoubleSix, the Game-Creator Part. But he also has to improve his defence, but if Modric can, Silva can better.

In my Opp. The Players should also start learing positions switch, when Kolarov goes Offensive, the other 3 Defenders has to fit a line with a 3 CB System, there is no need that Zabaleta runs offensiv too, if the Ball is on Kolarovs Side.
 
For the ones asking about Wolfsburg"s formation here is the one against ManU, which they mostly played through the season:
<a class="postlink" href="http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/champions-league/2009-2010/manchester-united-vfl-wolfsburg-343869.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/ ... 43869.html</a>

Misimovic was AMF and Josue DMF constantly. Hasebe was playing as CMF or DMF also while Gentner was playing wide roles as CMF, AMF, ML/R and sometimes even as a second striker. They basically played without a winger. Ziani was only natural winger there and he rarely had the chance to start.
Their midfield was awfully slow as both CB-s. Fullbacks were great and had good pace. Since I watch bundesliga regularly, I must say that almost they had a good team, they got a luck to win it. Their main strength was set pieces and counter attacks. When they used to score first they would win, and they had luck to score first in many matches in that season, while Bayern was playing really poorly.Grafite-Dzeko-Misimovic was the formula to success.Individuality. Misimovic had around 20 assists(broke the German record) and around 7-10 goals, mostly from set pieces or counter attacks. His balls were really superb. Grafite and Dzeko - well score 54 goals(broke the record also). Magath(coach at that season) is one of the best coaches out there when it comes to physical training. Dzeko and Grafite were so strong and fast that they could basically hold one defender on their backs and run past the other one. They were superb in keeping the possesion, 1 on 1 and movement of the ball.I think Dzeko was stronger and faster in that time then he is now. So most of the Wolfsburg actions were starting from long balls or through balls going to Grafite/Dzeko (Lets say Dzeko), then:
1) Dzeko gets it at the center,keeps the ball, waits and then gives it back and it gets around the middle. Then they slowly built the play and mostly ending it with long ball again(at penalty area mostly) or waiting for fullbacks to come and make a cross. Dzeko played a big role here because he compensated the lack of pace and creativity in the midfield, holding the ball well and creating more space to others
2) Dzeko gets the ball on the wing or at the center runs to the side, makes a quick cross and centers the ball to Grafite, pass it to the midfield or make a full run to the box. Yes, he actually was fast if that is your question. He was always moving and changing positions with Grafite and was often playing on the side.
3)Gets the ball and with some quick passes with Misimovic and Grafite makes a goal scoring chance. This was the importance of the team play and good movement of the ball.
Both Grafite and Dzeko had roles like this and I often seen them having more touches with the ball then Hasebe or Gentner. (Imagine 2 Tevez in line-up)I also watched some games where some midfield players didn't touch the ball for 10 minutes or more.
Next season, when Grafite was out of form and Misimovic was completelly closed every game, their play crushed. Specially when they didnt find the luck of scoring the first.
Now, as I saw Dzeko playing in both matches I can say that his role changed crucially. He had more touches in one game at WFL then in both these games together. Tevez has that role now. Dzeko likes to be a part of the game and likes the ball. He wants to put his efforts for the team and contributes by both assists and goals. I hope it doesn't become the barrier if he is pushed too hard from the play.How long will he tolerate when teammates are not passing to him at all. Against Wolves he basically had no crosses and lost balls, but had quite few balls at all. Against Villa, it can be seen that he was frustrated at some occasions because he tried to go solo 2-3 times. Although he is the team player, I am afraid that this and lack of confidence will make him play for him self, not the team. After all, he must concede goals and must prove his price. He is afraid of not succeeding. Bent had 3 touches and scored a goal, and that's what it counts after all. No one will remember that Hart had more touches then him, just like no one will Remember those couple of moves by Dzeko against Wolves if he doesn't score in next 2-3 games.
 
DD said:
wanderer72 said:
Sorry mate, but when it comes to pace, bollocks. The third goal vs the Wolves: YaYa to Dzeko, Dzeko to Tevez, Tevez to Dzeko, Dzeko making a poor chap look like a bloody idiot, pass to YaYa, YaYa's clinical finish... How many seconds did it last, from roughly the edge of the City box to the net?

When it comes to urgency, it a discipline and gelling issue, nothing more. When it comes to quality, you really must be joking.

Well that's one example. Name another!!!

Our midfield trio is the slowest out of the big clubs by a million miles.

We may have pace in other areas but it's the midfield that dictates the temp of the game. We play at a slower tempo than more or less anyone in the country. Now that might be the manager's choice but to try and pretend that we are a pacey side is just silly.

Look, mate, your expectations may be too high...

It is one example, which proves that pace is in principle there. It needs to be brought out more often, SYSTEMICALLY and not by an ingenious improvisation like there. Dzeko (I know, not one of the three ;) was physically at 70% of his competitive average (the poorest I've seen him in years, he should have kept training regardless of the BL break), and he still pulled it off, YaYa as well. If YaYa can, anyone there can too.

I've seen much lesser teams (on paper) and clear underdogs destroy "world classes" too often to really think that there needs to be XI of the world greatest (in each position) to win a league... It does require a "world class" TEAM though.

City has NO team, nearly, that's the first and the major problem here. Its midfield is more than good and pacy enough (individually) for that task, there needs to be a lot of gelling, a lot less "me, me me, look at me" and much more team work. It needs to work by a disciplined instinct, that's the main thing that makes a world class team in my view.
 
[Mancio's quote:]
boateng and kolarov still have to settle , anyway i think you are right . we dont have the quality. in fact i often wrote de jong barry and kolo and tevez are NOT good enough. we need more world class players , this is the simple truth.[/quote]

Hmmm. Interesting to see De Jong's name there. Do you feel he's not good enough going forward?
 

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