Edin Dzeko

[Gaylord du Bois]

He's just a white Balotelli.

 

[noise]

He's just a white Balotelli.

He's exactly the opposite. Dzeko penalty specialist? I don't think so. Dzeko has never been red carded in his career either.

 

[pudge]

Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.
Of course you never let any actual facts get in the way of a good delusional post do you?

And I'm pretty sure the cat gif was pointed at you as much as anyone else.

Oh dear, here we go again - I keep promising myself not to get involved (similar to discussions of politics and religion), but having just found a stats site called "WhoScored.com" that shows pretty extensive player stats for every game, I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).

1. Reading comments on here during and immediately after the Newcastle game, the consensus was that the whole team was poor, and that Dzeko was probably one of the poorer players out there. In contrast, Negredo did okay and was one of the bright spots of the evening, especially as he won the game for us.
2. When I saw the game later that evening, I was unsurprised to find that in my view the team didn't play that badly (admittedly, knowing the result probably made me a lot less critical of individual errors) and that Dzeko actually played pretty well relative to the others.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. This is presumably based on some formula the site has developed involving all the different stats it collects, and is absolutely open for debate, but it is presumably the same formula they use for every game, and wasn't devised by a group of City-hating Bosnian Dzeko fanboys after the fact to make him look good.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being viewed in a negative light based on people's preconceptions (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely). It's the same idea as blaming a woman driver for a car accident based on the preconception that women drivers aren't very good. The premise may or may not be true, but if you want to know who caused a particular accident, you need to look at the circumstances of the accident without any preconceptions - legal systems work like this for good reason.
5. If any good performances he has are always viewed in as negative a way as possible, the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.

If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react if Dzeko did the same. If your immediate response is; "yes, but it wouldn't be the first time for Dzeko, he's always doing that sort of thing", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own. Was it forgivable or was it a bad play? If it was forgivable (a difficult chance, nothing else on, unlucky, etc.) then it should be forgivable for everyone. If it was bad (should've passed, poor technique, etc.) then it should be bad for everyone. And if Dzeko does something good, don't just dismiss it as "that was a great play, but it's the first time he's done it all season" or " not bad, but Aguero would've done better". Instead give him the credit for it. If you do this for a few games I guarantee you'll have a fairer picture of how good or bad our players are. You may still think Dzeko is clearly our third choice striker - I have no argument with you if that's your opinion based on an unbiased assessment.

And before anyone replies with the common refrain; "I only criticize him because of the OTT adulation from annoying fanboys", that's really only a justification for criticizing the posters, not the player. If your dislike for a player's fans makes you unreasonably critical of the player, you're really no better than the people you criticize for being unreasonably laudatory.

Oh dear, here we go again. I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).

1. Dzeko gave the ball away more than any other player whilst also being dispossessed more than any other player during the match. Whilst also having the 3rd worst passing success rate of our outfield players.
2. The team was poor that game, for 90 minutes at least with Dzeko playing his equal part in a snooze-fest. As shown by his inability to retain possesion as highlighted by the aforementioned facts.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. Yet if you look beyond the "star" by his name you'll see that he was indeed the player who lost the ball the most, and gave it away the most whilst lacking in his passing for 120 minutes. This is through no one's fault but his own that and was a hindrance to the team. Perhaps the formula used to devise and attribute Motm awards for an online website places emphasis on goals/assists and rightfully so, but perhaps that's merely papering over the cracks and acts as no true reflection.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being scrutinized by their overall body of work and not simply focusing on an instance or two of good play yet people challenge those assessments due to their own preconceptions of the poster who is posting such (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely).
5. If any poster doesn't join in the idea that the sun shines out of his arse and questions such performances when it's clear that he was poor for the majority of the game even the once, then he's labelled a 'hater' and regardless of future or previous praise the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.

If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react. If your immediate response is; "Yep, I'll take a note of that and make sure I bring it up and post about it because that's what happens to Dzeko", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own and not exacerbate the problem and partake in your own double standard.

 

[sir baconface]

To have 234 pages debating the ability or inability of a player, tells you one thing for sure. Somewhere, he's lacking.

He's split Bluemoon opinion more than anyone since Balo. That suggests he's not as complete a player as our very finest. Some of the criticism may be a reaction to the "fanboyz".

 

[1dart]

Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.
Of course you never let any actual facts get in the way of a good delusional post do you?

And I'm pretty sure the cat gif was pointed at you as much as anyone else.

Oh dear, here we go again - I keep promising myself not to get involved (similar to discussions of politics and religion), but having just found a stats site called "WhoScored.com" that shows pretty extensive player stats for every game, I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).

1. Reading comments on here during and immediately after the Newcastle game, the consensus was that the whole team was poor, and that Dzeko was probably one of the poorer players out there. In contrast, Negredo did okay and was one of the bright spots of the evening, especially as he won the game for us.
2. When I saw the game later that evening, I was unsurprised to find that in my view the team didn't play that badly (admittedly, knowing the result probably made me a lot less critical of individual errors) and that Dzeko actually played pretty well relative to the others.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. This is presumably based on some formula the site has developed involving all the different stats it collects, and is absolutely open for debate, but it is presumably the same formula they use for every game, and wasn't devised by a group of City-hating Bosnian Dzeko fanboys after the fact to make him look good.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being viewed in a negative light based on people's preconceptions (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely). It's the same idea as blaming a woman driver for a car accident based on the preconception that women drivers aren't very good. The premise may or may not be true, but if you want to know who caused a particular accident, you need to look at the circumstances of the accident without any preconceptions - legal systems work like this for good reason.
5. If any good performances he has are always viewed in as negative a way as possible, the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.

If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react if Dzeko did the same. If your immediate response is; "yes, but it wouldn't be the first time for Dzeko, he's always doing that sort of thing", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own. Was it forgivable or was it a bad play? If it was forgivable (a difficult chance, nothing else on, unlucky, etc.) then it should be forgivable for everyone. If it was bad (should've passed, poor technique, etc.) then it should be bad for everyone. And if Dzeko does something good, don't just dismiss it as "that was a great play, but it's the first time he's done it all season" or " not bad, but Aguero would've done better". Instead give him the credit for it. If you do this for a few games I guarantee you'll have a fairer picture of how good or bad our players are. You may still think Dzeko is clearly our third choice striker - I have no argument with you if that's your opinion based on an unbiased assessment.

And before anyone replies with the common refrain; "I only criticize him because of the OTT adulation from annoying fanboys", that's really only a justification for criticizing the posters, not the player. If your dislike for a player's fans makes you unreasonably critical of the player, you're really no better than the people you criticize for being unreasonably laudatory.

Thats perfectly put

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

He's just a white Balotelli.

He's exactly the opposite. Dzeko penalty specialist? I don't think so. Dzeko has never been red carded in his career either.

"Get in ma belly"

 

[NorCalBlue]

Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.
Of course you never let any actual facts get in the way of a good delusional post do you?

And I'm pretty sure the cat gif was pointed at you as much as anyone else.

Oh dear, here we go again - I keep promising myself not to get involved (similar to discussions of politics and religion), but having just found a stats site called "WhoScored.com" that shows pretty extensive player stats for every game, I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).

1. Reading comments on here during and immediately after the Newcastle game, the consensus was that the whole team was poor, and that Dzeko was probably one of the poorer players out there. In contrast, Negredo did okay and was one of the bright spots of the evening, especially as he won the game for us.
2. When I saw the game later that evening, I was unsurprised to find that in my view the team didn't play that badly (admittedly, knowing the result probably made me a lot less critical of individual errors) and that Dzeko actually played pretty well relative to the others.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. This is presumably based on some formula the site has developed involving all the different stats it collects, and is absolutely open for debate, but it is presumably the same formula they use for every game, and wasn't devised by a group of City-hating Bosnian Dzeko fanboys after the fact to make him look good.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being viewed in a negative light based on people's preconceptions (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely). It's the same idea as blaming a woman driver for a car accident based on the preconception that women drivers aren't very good. The premise may or may not be true, but if you want to know who caused a particular accident, you need to look at the circumstances of the accident without any preconceptions - legal systems work like this for good reason.
5. If any good performances he has are always viewed in as negative a way as possible, the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.

If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react if Dzeko did the same. If your immediate response is; "yes, but it wouldn't be the first time for Dzeko, he's always doing that sort of thing", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own. Was it forgivable or was it a bad play? If it was forgivable (a difficult chance, nothing else on, unlucky, etc.) then it should be forgivable for everyone. If it was bad (should've passed, poor technique, etc.) then it should be bad for everyone. And if Dzeko does something good, don't just dismiss it as "that was a great play, but it's the first time he's done it all season" or " not bad, but Aguero would've done better". Instead give him the credit for it. If you do this for a few games I guarantee you'll have a fairer picture of how good or bad our players are. You may still think Dzeko is clearly our third choice striker - I have no argument with you if that's your opinion based on an unbiased assessment.

And before anyone replies with the common refrain; "I only criticize him because of the OTT adulation from annoying fanboys", that's really only a justification for criticizing the posters, not the player. If your dislike for a player's fans makes you unreasonably critical of the player, you're really no better than the people you criticize for being unreasonably laudatory.

Oh dear, here we go again. I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).

1. Dzeko gave the ball away more than any other player whilst also being dispossessed more than any other player during the match. Whilst also having the 3rd worst passing success rate of our outfield players.
2. The team was poor that game, for 90 minutes at least with Dzeko playing his equal part in a snooze-fest. As shown by his inability to retain possesion as highlighted by the aforementioned facts.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. Yet if you look beyond the "star" by his name you'll see that he was indeed the player who lost the ball the most, and gave it away the most whilst lacking in his passing for 120 minutes. This is through no one's fault but his own that and was a hindrance to the team. Perhaps the formula used to devise and attribute Motm awards for an online website places emphasis on goals/assists and rightfully so, but perhaps that's merely papering over the cracks and acts as no true reflection.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being scrutinized by their overall body of work and not simply focusing on an instance or two of good play yet people challenge those assessments due to their own preconceptions of the poster who is posting such (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely).
5. If any poster doesn't join in the idea that the sun shines out of his arse and questions such performances when it's clear that he was poor for the majority of the game even the once, then he's labelled a 'hater' and regardless of future or previous praise the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.

If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react. If your immediate response is; "Yep, I'll take a note of that and make sure I bring it up and post about it because that's what happens to Dzeko", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own and not exacerbate the problem and partake in your own double standard.

Despite repeatedly accusing other posters of cherry-picking to make Dzeko look good, you once again show your hypocrisy by cherry-picking to make him look bad. Are you afraid that all the facts will weaken your increasingly entrenched position?

1. Since you already noted his worst stats, let's fill in some of his best to make it a more balanced analysis (something you obviously didn't want). Apart from the goal and assist, he had the most key passes (5, tied with Navas - only Rodwell and Milner of the other players had any - 1 and 2 respectively), won the second most aerial duals (5 - Richards had 7, but no one else had more than 3), and was tied for the second most successful dribbles. Even the passing stat doesn't look so bad in context: who were the 5 players with the worst passing stats (other than the goalie)? - the three strikers and the two full-backs. Players with different roles in the team should be expected to have very different passing stats, and amongst those playing a comparable role, Dzeko's success rate of 76% is not significantly different to Negredo's (79%), and is better than Jovetic's (67%).
2. Now you're double-dipping by repeating a negative stat from point 1.
3. I'm sure the formula used by the website does focus on goals and assists, but it's obviously a bit more than that, since Negredo also got a goal and yet his overall rating was 7.33 to Dzeko's 8.96, which would mean at a heck of a lot of weight was given to an assist.
4. LOL, I think you should have read that one more carefully before trying to be a smart-arse since you appear to have emphasized my point; your clever version was "It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being scrutinized by their overall body of work and not simply focusing on an instance or two of good play". Exactly my point - he's judged on previous performances instead of on the specific instances of good (or bad) play. And then you went on the write, "yet people challenge those assessments due to their own preconceptions of the poster who is posting such" which is a perfect description of what you do every time I post. Maybe you're subconsciously getting it after all!
5. Although I really don't have the time or inclination to do it, I'm pretty sure that 'fanboy' is used on this thread a lot more than 'hater'. I really do feel sorry for you Pudge - you try and try to be so fair and reasonable, but the mean Bosnians keep upsetting you. Perhaps they've got into your head?

And finally, to narrow this particular discussion and to try to make my point again, the Newcastle game is a great example of how preconceptions can have a huge effect on perception. The consensus seemed to be that Negredo played much better than Dzeko in that game (how they've played in other games should be irrelevent to that point), and yet the stats from a neutral website suggest that Dzeko actually had a better game than Negredo on the night (go to the website, linked above, and compare all their stats for yourself - don't let someone else cherry-pick the data for you). That, to me, shows bias. If your response is that you saw the game and your brain took everything into consideration and used its own formula so that you just know Negredo played better, in spite of what the stats show, then I rest my case. If a black guy applies for a job with the a slightly better resume than a white guy, but the white guy gets the job, the employer is clearly considering things other than the qualifications of the applicants listed in front of him.

 

[AntiUnited]

He's just a white Balotelli.

 

[LoveCity]

The Pellegrini honeymoon didn't last very long...

“But I need to play more than I am. I’ve only started four games in the Premier League. But if you put me in there for 90 minutes, everything is possible.”

“The first game of the season I played well, I just didn’t score. The second game I scored, then the manager changed me. I don’t know why.”

“Then in the third game he changed me at half-time. Again, I don’t know why. The team played badly in the first-half, for sure, but it’s always on the strikers if it doesn’t go well.”

“So I think I could definitely have played more than I have done. It’s difficult because you don’t have a run of games, then you come into the team after maybe four games and sometimes you want to do well, but you can’t do it.”

“For three games in the Premier League I didn’t play at all. That never happened last season. I didn’t go three games without any minutes.”

“There’s Champions League and Capital One Cup also, but that’s not enough for me.”

“It’s important to hear from the manager when you’re not playing. Why are you not playing? What do you have to do better to play? So we’re talking about that.”

“For every striker it’s important to play 90 minutes, not 45, then 50, then maybe 15, you know? But I’m still here and I still have 18 months left on my contract. But you never know what can happen in the future.”

“It’s competitive but when we play together or when Negredo or Aguero play instead of me, then I wish them the best.”

“When we play together and I see one of them free to score a goal, I’ll always pass to him. It’s not like ‘I don’t want them to score’. Of course there’s competition and everyone wants to play, but we’re team-mates.”

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/edin-dzeko-exclusive-manchester-city-2707816" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/ ... ty-2707816</a>

 

[worsleyweb]

This is like a left wing right wing thread - pointless. Bosnian say he's the white pele. City fans say he ok not great. And repeat a thousand times.