England wasting one of the most talented squads ever assembled on Southgate

If south gate has the bottle to put Bellingham alongside rice this summer and have Kane, foden,rashford,saka up top then we win the euros imo. but he won't..
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Ah, Spain, yes.

Do you think we’d beat Spain if we played them?
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We should, obviously. Rodders aside, I'm not sure any of them are world class (an overused term). I would back Arry to score and if we could get all the defenders that we've got, fit, then I reckon we could overwhelm midfield - personally I would play that 17 year old further back. We just need some tactical nous to make it happen, and doing away with miss guided loyalty to certain players.

Given injuries to to our fullbacks (will they ever be fit?) and the lack of a partner for Stones (he has to start playing Dunk) he should be blooding some of the younger ones, now.

Midfield - we have enough international standard players with other still to prove themselves, to warrant going still further in tournaments.

Forwards - he must be bricking it about Arry. If he's out we just have the wingers to rely on and he doesn't know how to release them. At least Arry will be resting for half the year. He should play longer if he stays in Germany.

It will be interesting to see who he puts out in the last 2 games.

He's taken them as far as he can. If we are sticking to British managers, I think Potter may get more out of them but he'd be daft to do it.
 
Asa's left peg said:
We should, obviously. Rodders aside, I'm not sure any of them are world class (an overused term). I would back Arry to score and if we could get all the defenders that we've got, fit, then I reckon we could overwhelm midfield - personally I would play that 17 year old further back. We just need some tactical nous to make it happen, and doing away with miss guided loyalty to certain players.

Given injuries to to our fullbacks (will they ever be fit?) and the lack of a partner for Stones (he has to start playing Dunk) he should be blooding some of the younger ones, now.

Midfield - we have enough international standard players with other still to prove themselves, to warrant going still further in tournaments.

Forwards - he must be bricking it about Arry. If he's out we just have the wingers to rely on and he doesn't know how to release them. At least Arry will be resting for half the year. He should play longer if he stays in Germany.

It will be interesting to see who he puts out in the last 2 games.

He's taken them as far as he can. If we are sticking to British managers, I think Potter may get more out of them but he'd be daft to do it.
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We shall see, maybe. I’d make Spain the favourites if we meet in Euro24.
 
GoatersLeftShin said:
Totally agree mate. I'm sure some people think that every World Cup winning side plays like Brazil 70!

He's qualified for every tournament, lost in a Euros final and got beat in a World Cup semi final. NO OTHER MANAGER, apart from Sir Alf has got his record. It's as simple as that.

We've had "better managers" in Venables, Keegan, Hoddle, Capello and Erikssen and all together their record still isn't as good as Southgates even if you add them all up together! I also rated Venables and Hoddle as two of the best managers England have had.

I'd argue these managers had just as many world class players, if not more, to choose from. Erikssen had players like Seaman, Neville, Terry, Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Cole, Ferdinand, Campbell, Beckham, Scholes, Owen and Sheringham to pick from and still couldn't do anything with them.

England in 1970 didn't win it and they must've had some decent players to choose from - Banks, Moore, Mullery, Cooper, Lee, Ball, Bobby and Jackie Charlton, Hurst, Peters, Stiles, Bell, Hunter, Osgood!

It wasn't long ago that the likes of Neville, Gerrard and Terry would have cliques in the squad, we don't have that any more. He's turned the England team into something players want to play in again!

Other than winning every game 10-0, home and away, playing like Brazil 70 with the City under-12s, I really don't know what he has to do to please some people. It's not like we've never had good players - we had always had them, but what we've rarely had is a good team. He has created a good team and a lot of people are taking it for granted.

I can't remember the last time I saw an international team win the World Cup, or Euros, that played scintillating football. I mean, look at Argentina they weren't great at all and their best player - some say one of the best of all time - was underwhelming if I'm being kind.
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Women have won the euros but he cant , they also lost in world cup final though , he is a boring manager , he has left raz out despite him playing well but he continues to stick with henderson, baffling
 
kaz7 said:
Women have won the euros but he cant , they also lost in world cup final though , he is a boring manager , he has left raz out despite him playing well but he continues to stick with henderson, baffling
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Oh the irony, eh! He would probably not give him the room to work, as he has done in the past.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
We shall see, maybe. I’d make Spain the favourites if we meet in Euro24.
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I don't think Spain have enough of a cutting age. They've got excellent technical players, particularly in midfield, but they've not got quite the same ability to dictate a game and create chances.

On your earlier post regarding our midfield, I think Bellingham genuinely changes it. The Italy game was one we'd usually show promising signs in but manage to lose any rhythm or control due to our midfielders passing backwards or sideways. Bellingham demands the ball, goes looking for it, conducts things and it helps drive us. We have players who are more comfortable on the ball now, and better at keeping the ball under pressure.

If we're to win the Euro's, even if we do play two "holding" players, we will need to see more from Rice. I still don't buy into the hype with him. He needs to run things from the deeper area, or, if there's nothing on - keep the ball the way Stones does to create that little bit of space. He sometimes drives forwards, but too often he's just passing it backwards. If he can develop his game a bit more, I think England have a great chance of winning the Euro's. We've got defensive options to challenge Maguire now. But we'll have to keep Bellingham and Kane fit and I'd say Stones as well.
 
Asa's left peg said:
Don't get me wrong, they are at a decent level - but they have what we don't - tactical nous and playing to players strengths. Will be interesting if we meet.
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You’d hope so, but I’m sure Gareth would make it as boring as he could..
;-)

If we could get England players not randomly roaming from their positions, we would have a decent attempt at winning a tournament!

After one of our corners vs Italy, we had Walker at left back, Trippier as left centre half, Rice as the other centre back and Stones at right back.

Then, you watch us defend and the space in midfield between Rice, Phillips and either Bellingham or Kane was vast at times!
 
supercity88 said:
I don't think Spain have enough of a cutting age. They've got excellent technical players, particularly in midfield, but they've not got quite the same ability to dictate a game and create chances.

On your earlier post regarding our midfield, I think Bellingham genuinely changes it. The Italy game was one we'd usually show promising signs in but manage to lose any rhythm or control due to our midfielders passing backwards or sideways. Bellingham demands the ball, goes looking for it, conducts things and it helps drive us. We have players who are more comfortable on the ball now, and better at keeping the ball under pressure.

If we're to win the Euro's, even if we do play two "holding" players, we will need to see more from Rice. I still don't buy into the hype with him. He needs to run things from the deeper area, or, if there's nothing on - keep the ball the way Stones does to create that little bit of space. He sometimes drives forwards, but too often he's just passing it backwards. If he can develop his game a bit more, I think England have a great chance of winning the Euro's. We've got defensive options to challenge Maguire now. But we'll have to keep Bellingham and Kane fit and I'd say Stones as well.
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Don’t disagree with most of that. The missing bits are mental rather than technical. If Kane was Spanish, they’d win a lot of trophies.

The Rice/Phillips axis is our weakest part of the side. Pep would bench Phillips and play a more attacking 6/8. Our options there aren’t great though.

I need to watch more of Bellingham to see how he works defensively. He’s almost a false 9 for Madrid at the moment and a roaming 10 for England.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Getting to a final and semi final is ‘failing’ lol. Ok, so the only possible chance a manager has with our (online) moan brigade nation is to actually win a major tournament , in a knockout cup competition with loads of other very good sides - we have no divine right whatever squad or manager we have. I’ll just support our young lads whatever club team they play for.

But if you want your own nation to lose then it must great to just sit and snipe through every win in hope we will eventually fall short like the rest of the 99% of the teams that go into it.
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You may be content to accept mediocrity,along with a few others.
I'm not nor are other posters.


Please point out anything I've wrote that implies that I want England to fail.
I'd like us to actually try to win,when it matters,rather than constantly setting up to avoid defeat.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Don’t disagree with most of that. The missing bits are mental rather than technical. If Kane was Spanish, they’d win a lot of trophies.

The Rice/Phillips axis is our weakest part of the side. Pep would bench Phillips and play a more attacking 6/8. Our options there aren’t great though.

I need to watch more of Bellingham to see how he works defensively. He’s almost a false 9 for Madrid at the moment and a roaming 10 for England.
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He works hard off the ball, the issue England have is that Kane can't press. He can't play that high intensity football. He trots about which, as we know, means the whole high press system can't work. So England are therefore drilled to be a bit more selective in their pressing and we probably need an extra holding player as a result. If you play Foden, Bellingham and Rice then due to Kane's sluggish press, we'll soon be passed around and sliced open.

England fans have for years said about the squad being the best and the wrong players being picked. Throwing an attacking player in for Henderson/Phillips will not suddenly see us win every game. Hopefully we can come up with the right system to get the winning result in a major tournament.
 
supercity88 said:
He works hard off the ball, the issue England have is that Kane can't press. He can't play that high intensity football. He trots about which, as we know, means the whole high press system can't work. So England are therefore drilled to be a bit more selective in their pressing and we probably need an extra holding player as a result. If you play Foden, Bellingham and Rice then due to Kane's sluggish press, we'll soon be passed around and sliced open.

England fans have for years said about the squad being the best and the wrong players being picked. Throwing an attacking player in for Henderson/Phillips will not suddenly see us win every game. Hopefully we can come up with the right system to get the winning result in a major tournament.
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Horses for courses. More attacking player needed against low block, defensive sides and a more defensive one when playing better sides where stopping transitions is as important as attacking.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Horses for courses. More attacking player needed against low block, defensive sides and a more defensive one when playing better sides where stopping transitions is as important as attacking.
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Yeah definitely, but when it comes to tournaments there's a lot to be said of building a team ready for the knockouts by playing it in the qualifiers and group stage. We're eventually going to come up against a team that means we lean towards a double pivot, so it's sensible to try and play with it in the majority of games. Southgate's issue in my eyes is his inability to be proactive with changes. But we'll see, as I said a day or so ago - this will be his last tournament I'd imagine. If we don't win the Euro's I'm not sure he'll want, or be given, the chance to manage beyond that tournament.
 
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