Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[without a dream]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Clubs are becoming every more creative in ways to make money, regardless of FFP, but FFP certainly adds tot he incentive to be creative.
It's an inevitable consequence of creating rules, that people will then find a way around them.

People see this as a bad thing - 'getting around the rules', but that's precisely what rules do. UEFA have said 'These behaviours are not allowed', and therefore they encourage you to find ways of making money outside of those rules.

As for the academy being an FFP dodge, well in a sense it is, but only in part.

1) Infrastructure spend is not counted towards FFP, therefore in theory you can spend 400 million on the infrastructure, and earn 10 million a year in renting out the facilities, or cost savings etc (thus would take 40 years to pay for itself), but the 10 million you earn IS counted as part of your revenue.
So in essence you can create some amazing white elephant sports facility and still count the minimal return is makes.

2) It's a genuine facility, and in theory will save us money when compared with the current facilities.

3) It's a top notch facility that players will welcome, and hopefully flourish in, and it should help us attract more young players. Make no mistake, it's not going to result in a team full of academy graduates, but it MIGHT increase our odds of picking up one or two top class prospects capable of making the first team, or being sold for a healthy profit.
This is NOT a bad thing for youth players. They get fantastic facilities, and a chance of ending up at a top club, even if it's not City.
And of course, the harsh reality of football means that many won't make it. But this is football. Many won't make it at Oldham Athletic either.

I'm glad someone gets it. That's exactly how I see it. A big investment that will have to yield big returns to get close to a ROI. The cash up front (is it£100m ?) is one thing but it's going to cost £10m a year or so to run, so in ten years it needs to have generated £200m (or whatever the figure is)

That's obviously taking the FFP implications out of it, which I agree are a factor.

Given the way transfer prices are going that might only need as few as 7 first teamers over 20 years. It's a big number but the only club with a similar facilty (Barca) manage that quite easily. The Sheikh's wealth takes the pressure off the ROI but it's not intended as a FFP dodge, imo, just part of the long term business plan, I think the wheels were in motion pre-FFP weren't they?

 

[Danamy]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Clubs are becoming every more creative in ways to make money, regardless of FFP, but FFP certainly adds tot he incentive to be creative.
It's an inevitable consequence of creating rules, that people will then find a way around them.

People see this as a bad thing - 'getting around the rules', but that's precisely what rules do. UEFA have said 'These behaviours are not allowed', and therefore they encourage you to find ways of making money outside of those rules.

As for the academy being an FFP dodge, well in a sense it is, but only in part.

1) Infrastructure spend is not counted towards FFP, therefore in theory you can spend 400 million on the infrastructure, and earn 10 million a year in renting out the facilities, or cost savings etc (thus would take 40 years to pay for itself), but the 10 million you earn IS counted as part of your revenue.
So in essence you can create some amazing white elephant sports facility and still count the minimal return is makes.

2) It's a genuine facility, and in theory will save us money when compared with the current facilities.

3) It's a top notch facility that players will welcome, and hopefully flourish in, and it should help us attract more young players. Make no mistake, it's not going to result in a team full of academy graduates, but it MIGHT increase our odds of picking up one or two top class prospects capable of making the first team, or being sold for a healthy profit.
This is NOT a bad thing for youth players. They get fantastic facilities, and a chance of ending up at a top club, even if it's not City.
And of course, the harsh reality of football means that many won't make it. But this is football. Many won't make it at Oldham Athletic either.

Item 3 all day, nothing more, nothing less

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Clubs are becoming every more creative in ways to make money, regardless of FFP, but FFP certainly adds tot he incentive to be creative.
It's an inevitable consequence of creating rules, that people will then find a way around them.

People see this as a bad thing - 'getting around the rules', but that's precisely what rules do. UEFA have said 'These behaviours are not allowed', and therefore they encourage you to find ways of making money outside of those rules.

As for the academy being an FFP dodge, well in a sense it is, but only in part.

1) Infrastructure spend is not counted towards FFP, therefore in theory you can spend 400 million on the infrastructure, and earn 10 million a year in renting out the facilities, or cost savings etc (thus would take 40 years to pay for itself), but the 10 million you earn IS counted as part of your revenue.
So in essence you can create some amazing white elephant sports facility and still count the minimal return is makes.

2) It's a genuine facility, and in theory will save us money when compared with the current facilities.

3) It's a top notch facility that players will welcome, and hopefully flourish in, and it should help us attract more young players. Make no mistake, it's not going to result in a team full of academy graduates, but it MIGHT increase our odds of picking up one or two top class prospects capable of making the first team, or being sold for a healthy profit.
This is NOT a bad thing for youth players. They get fantastic facilities, and a chance of ending up at a top club, even if it's not City.
And of course, the harsh reality of football means that many won't make it. But this is football. Many won't make it at Oldham Athletic either.

I'm glad someone gets it. That's exactly how I see it. A big investment that will have to yield big returns to get close to a ROI. The cash up front (is it£100m ?) is one thing but it's going to cost £10m a year or so to run, so in ten years it needs to have generated £200m (or whatever the figure is)

That's obviously taking the FFP implications out of it, which I agree are a factor.

Given the way transfer prices are going that might only need as few as 7 first teamers over 20 years. It's a big number but the only club with a similar facilty (Barca) manage that quite easily. The Sheikh's wealth takes the pressure off the ROI but it's not intended as a FFP dodge, imo, just part of the long term business plan, I think the wheels were in motion pre-FFP weren't they?

I'm sure that's the intention. Remember as well, as I alluded to earlier, if you can sell a number of players every year who haven't quite made it to lower division clubs then you can generate several mill a year. There was a time when we did this with the likes of Lee Croft etc. United have done this very well over the years too.

 

[casualdeyna]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Not sure if some are on the wind up questioning benefits of CFA, if you have the money and ambition to make your club "the best" having the "best" facilities is a must. The CFA is also unique, certainly in this country, with everything being housed literally across the road from the stadium, it will be the envy of the football world, players young and old will want to be a part of it. It demonstrates we mean business long-term and not just "a rich man's play-thing."

The City group is a little harder to get head around as the benefits aren't as clear to see, but these business people always talk about "brands." Having "sister" clubs in emerging football markets enhances our brand, the fact all three clubs have synergies enhances the brand of all three, it's mutually beneficial both short-term and long-term. I'm not a business person so as the benefits aren't as tangible it isn't easy to see the benefits but one thing Mansour and Mubarak have demonstrated is how good businessmen they are (or how good the businessmen they pay are) so it would be silly to think they don't know what they are doing.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Not sure if some are on the wind up questioning benefits of CFA, if you have the money and ambition to make your club "the best" having the "best" facilities is a must. The CFA is also unique, certainly in this country, with everything being housed literally across the road from the stadium, it will be the envy of the football world, players young and old will want to be a part of it. It demonstrates we mean business long-term and not just "a rich man's play-thing."

The City group is a little harder to get head around as the benefits aren't as clear to see, but these business people always talk about "brands." Having "sister" clubs in emerging football markets enhances our brand, the fact all three clubs have synergies enhances the brand of all three, it's mutually beneficial both short-term and long-term. I'm not a business person so as the benefits aren't as tangible it isn't easy to see the benefits but one thing Mansour and Mubarak have demonstrated is how good businessmen they are (or how good the businessmen they pay are) so it would be silly to think they don't know what they are doing.

We aren't talking about the benefits: they are obvious. We are talking about what sort of Return on Investment we can acually expect by taking this route.

 

[Marvin]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Giving players 5 star treatment as opposed to 4 star treatment produces better footballers?

Looks great.

I think the coaching, staff and recruitment will have a bigger impact on the development of the players than facilities.

I think it would be wrong to expect a sudden step-up in City's academy, and the generation of young players purely off the back of this development,

A holistic approach is required

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Giving players 5 star treatment as opposed to 4 star treatment produces better footballers?

Looks great.

I think the coaching, staff and recruitment will have a bigger impact on the development of the players than facilities.

I think it would be wrong to expect a sudden step-up in City's academy, and the generation of young players purely off the back of this development,

A holistic approach is required

Up to now the Sheik M.'s approach has been to provide the means to get the best whether it be managers, players or indeed those employed via his ADUG.
It seems he wants to minimise the potential for failure so he is after advice providing the best of everything so that his employees can enact their business plan.

We have seen the ruthless streak if any step out of line so I think it had better be necessary or there may be other casualties.

 

[BobKowalski]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

The City group is a little harder to get head around as the benefits aren't as clear to see, but these business people always talk about "brands." Having "sister" clubs in emerging football markets enhances our brand, the fact all three clubs have synergies enhances the brand of all three, it's mutually beneficial both short-term and long-term. I'm not a business person so as the benefits aren't as tangible it isn't easy to see the benefits but one thing Mansour and Mubarak have demonstrated is how good businessmen they are (or how good the businessmen they pay are) so it would be silly to think they don't know what they are doing.

You have (eventually) the top team in Asia/Australia, North America, Europe (PL), Africa playing the same brand of football, similar kits, badges, philosophies etc. At the hub is MCFC and the 'best training and medical complex in sport'. You can leverage commercial deals for the Group on a global basis or just at a country level and making everyone feel that they are a 'Cityzen' (yeah okay I know but they are deadly serious about this shit). You have Arsenal fans who will also be fans of say Melbourne City, ManU fans becoming fans of NYFC and so on. Effectively as a commercial partner you are looking to sell your brand not just to fans of MCFC but every fucker on the planet who happens to like football. And the City Football Group will always be smiling and will always be a friend and benefactor to everyone everywhere especially if that 'everyone' has their hands on the levers of power. A bit like SPECTRE but nicer.

Football clubs are still relatively small beer when it comes to turnover and this is about turning a modest turnover as it stands into a global super brand that sucks in money on an international and national level. This was always the plan. FFP was a block in the road that is now in City's rear view mirror. Everyone runs around clucking with horror at the 'implications' of Lampard being loaned to City and 'what it means' when it means fuck all. Lampard is a distraction that City did for the lolz (well OK they didn't but it is fucking funny) while they get on with the serious biz of actually ruling the world.

 

[Zubrman]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

The City group is a little harder to get head around as the benefits aren't as clear to see, but these business people always talk about "brands." Having "sister" clubs in emerging football markets enhances our brand, the fact all three clubs have synergies enhances the brand of all three, it's mutually beneficial both short-term and long-term. I'm not a business person so as the benefits aren't as tangible it isn't easy to see the benefits but one thing Mansour and Mubarak have demonstrated is how good businessmen they are (or how good the businessmen they pay are) so it would be silly to think they don't know what they are doing.

You have (eventually) the top team in Asia/Australia, North America, Europe (PL), Africa playing the same brand of football, similar kits, badges, philosophies etc. At the hub is MCFC and the 'best training and medical complex in sport'. You can leverage commercial deals for the Group on a global basis or just at a country level and making everyone feel that they are a 'Cityzen' (yeah okay I know but they are deadly serious about this shit). You have Arsenal fans who will also be fans of say Melbourne City, ManU fans becoming fans of NYFC and so on. Effectively as a commercial partner you are looking to sell your brand not just to fans of MCFC but every fucker on the planet who happens to like football. And the City Football Group will always be smiling and will always be a friend and benefactor to everyone everywhere especially if that 'everyone' has their hands on the levers of power. A bit like SPECTRE but nicer.

Football clubs are still relatively small beer when it comes to turnover and this is about turning a modest turnover as it stands into a global super brand that sucks in money on an international and national level. This was always the plan. FFP was a block in the road that is now in City's rear view mirror. Everyone runs around clucking with horror at the 'implications' of Lampard being loaned to City and 'what it means' when it means fuck all. Lampard is a distraction that City did for the lolz (well OK they didn't but it is fucking funny) while they get on with the serious biz of actually ruling the world.

Now that last line did actually make me laugh out loud! (With admiration might I add.)

 

[danebanksheik]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

The City group is a little harder to get head around as the benefits aren't as clear to see, but these business people always talk about "brands." Having "sister" clubs in emerging football markets enhances our brand, the fact all three clubs have synergies enhances the brand of all three, it's mutually beneficial both short-term and long-term. I'm not a business person so as the benefits aren't as tangible it isn't easy to see the benefits but one thing Mansour and Mubarak have demonstrated is how good businessmen they are (or how good the businessmen they pay are) so it would be silly to think they don't know what they are doing.

You have (eventually) the top team in Asia/Australia, North America, Europe (PL), Africa playing the same brand of football, similar kits, badges, philosophies etc. At the hub is MCFC and the 'best training and medical complex in sport'. You can leverage commercial deals for the Group on a global basis or just at a country level and making everyone feel that they are a 'Cityzen' (yeah okay I know but they are deadly serious about this shit). You have Arsenal fans who will also be fans of say Melbourne City, ManU fans becoming fans of NYFC and so on. Effectively as a commercial partner you are looking to sell your brand not just to fans of MCFC but every fucker on the planet who happens to like football. And the City Football Group will always be smiling and will always be a friend and benefactor to everyone everywhere especially if that 'everyone' has their hands on the levers of power. A bit like SPECTRE but nicer.

Football clubs are still relatively small beer when it comes to turnover and this is about turning a modest turnover as it stands into a global super brand that sucks in money on an international and national level. This was always the plan. FFP was a block in the road that is now in City's rear view mirror. Everyone runs around clucking with horror at the 'implications' of Lampard being loaned to City and 'what it means' when it means fuck all. Lampard is a distraction that City did for the lolz (well OK they didn't but it is fucking funny) while they get on with the serious biz of actually ruling the world.

Excellent post