Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[Didsbury Dave]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

You appear to be be only one getting it here, although I have no idea about the figures. Obviously there may be some intangible benefits, like persuading players to come who might not otherwise, especially young ones. But otherwise it's a massive spend. I'm not accusing the club of going into it blindly: of course they won't be. But it's an extremely bold investment which requires an enormous return to make it worthwhile; short, medium and long term.

This is not about whether it's a desirable thing to do this. Of course it is, and of course it will improve the club. But this thing has ultimately been done to pay for itself and then turn a profit, like all Abu Dhabi investments. Otherwise it's a waste of money.

I understand that city's profile mirrors Abu Dhabi, and that (probably combined with an element of it being a vanity/fun project) is why they accept the business running at an irrecuperable cumulative loss. But the club is clearly gunning like mad to at least get close to or into the black.

This has to be a risky way to try to achieve that. The good news, I suppose, is that if/when there are teething troubles (just like with the building of the football club) the well won't run dry. Because Sale Sharks or Stockport County aren't going to be buying this off us.

It's going to be intriguing to see how this works in reality.

Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood.

But for example, say if the club has an annual £50 million put away for transfers each season and we only spend £20 million in the windows due to having a few youth players being promoted from our academy. Will the savings from the transfer window count as a return on investment?

A saving is still a return on investment. However, I think it's massively unrealistic to expect 20 million quid of talent to come through to the first team year on year. It just won't happen.
What is LIKELY to happen is that there will be lots of 'good' players leaving the academy which we will sell. For all intents and purposes, call it a player factory. If we have 20 players in the academy and we sell each for 500K, that's 10 million a year.

IF (big if) we spot a real talent, then great, we'll keep him and potentially guide him into the first team, where, even if he fails, we then might expect to be getting 1m for him instead of 500K (just an example).

And of course, we HOPE that having such great facilities will increase our odds of finding these young gems, but that's the icing on the cake (in my opinion). City surely must be relying on the bread and butter of an academy which is a player factory.

That's not to say City won't hope to be able to create a Barca type team where a core of young lads DO make it to the first team, I think that's our goal... I'm just saying that we must have a realistic view too that the academy will have to yield a good number of 'sellable' players at the same time.

I consider it a bit like a Chip manufacturer.... we'll keep or sell the high grade stuff for a premium, but we we have a process that ensures a minimum quality, and THAT yield is where we will focus most of our work. It's folly to expect another Barca or Fergie's kids. All we can do is lay a foundation where that COULD happen if we get lucky.

Yep. I agree with this. Lots of lee crofts can make one SWP. This will certainly happen, especially if they are very well coached as is surely the intention. There was a time 10-15 years ago when anyone who came through the united academy seemed to raise a million or two, and city will be expecting that too.

 

[trotsky]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Every club in the world makes big noises about producing their own stars. But it's a lot easier to say than to actually do.

And on that note.......

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2717240/Patrick-Vieira-building-bright-future-Manchester-City-core-group-English-players.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... paign=1490</a>

What a great article. This and the excellent thoughts of Martin Samuel are making the Mail my favourite daily - now I never thought I would ever be saying that!

 

[FanchesterCity]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood.

But for example, say if the club has an annual £50 million put away for transfers each season and we only spend £20 million in the windows due to having a few youth players being promoted from our academy. Will the savings from the transfer window count as a return on investment?

A saving is still a return on investment. However, I think it's massively unrealistic to expect 20 million quid of talent to come through to the first team year on year. It just won't happen.
What is LIKELY to happen is that there will be lots of 'good' players leaving the academy which we will sell. For all intents and purposes, call it a player factory. If we have 20 players in the academy and we sell each for 500K, that's 10 million a year.

IF (big if) we spot a real talent, then great, we'll keep him and potentially guide him into the first team, where, even if he fails, we then might expect to be getting 1m for him instead of 500K (just an example).

And of course, we HOPE that having such great facilities will increase our odds of finding these young gems, but that's the icing on the cake (in my opinion). City surely must be relying on the bread and butter of an academy which is a player factory.

That's not to say City won't hope to be able to create a Barca type team where a core of young lads DO make it to the first team, I think that's our goal... I'm just saying that we must have a realistic view too that the academy will have to yield a good number of 'sellable' players at the same time.

I consider it a bit like a Chip manufacturer.... we'll keep or sell the high grade stuff for a premium, but we we have a process that ensures a minimum quality, and THAT yield is where we will focus most of our work. It's folly to expect another Barca or Fergie's kids. All we can do is lay a foundation where that COULD happen if we get lucky.

Yep. I agree with this. Lots of lee crofts can make one SWP. This will certainly happen, especially if they are very well coached as is surely the intention. There was a time 10-15 years ago when anyone who came through the united academy seemed to raise a million or two, and city will be expecting that too.

Yep, as Chelsea seem to have mastered too.
It's almost like a brand for young players 'came through the Barca / Chelsea / City academy'. Of course, that looks a lot better when the first time are great and people think they are buying a slice of that. The moment the first team don't do well, then the academy stops looking quite so hot.

You either buy talent in, or you make it yourself. We've tossed away more than 150m on 'ready made' talent (that didn't work out) already, as have plenty of other clubs. So when you look at it like that 150m quid tossed at an Academy is now worse than a Santa Cruz, Robinho, Jo, Balotelli, Adebayour, Bianchi combined. I'm absolutely sure over a 15 year period, the amount we lose on players that don't work out will be more than we spend on the academy

 

[TFC]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Every club in the world makes big noises about producing their own stars. But it's a lot easier to say than to actually do.

And on that note.......

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2717240/Patrick-Vieira-building-bright-future-Manchester-City-core-group-English-players.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... paign=1490</a>

Just got done reading that, excellent stuff.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (continue

This goes beyond football generated dividends. It is an investment in Manchester real estate, developing a property portfolio including housing and offices. The profile of the city moving forward with HSR 2/3 on the horizon. The figures invested in the Brand now will look like pocket money compared to what they get back in the future. This is investment port folio for when the oil runs out. Arab states are very focussed on diversifying income streams. Manchester is perfect for them. Huge untapped potential, cheap, high profile product identity ( down to United). The facilities are a statement of intent to signify long term commitment to all parties as well as major regeneration which will help future returns. Any football benefits are just a cherry on the cake.

 

[tonea2003]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

The Barca Academy's yearly budget is about €10m and one I presume we'll be in the same area as.

Let's call it the £10m a year that you did earlier which is 20% highest than theirs and a decent estimate. We'll call the construction a £150m expenditure.

Unless we produce the best player in the world ever and sell him, we're almost certainly not going to get a ROI any time in the next 20 years.

You appear to be be only one getting it here, although I have no idea about the figures. Obviously there may be some intangible benefits, like persuading players to come who might not otherwise, especially young ones. But otherwise it's a massive spend. I'm not accusing the club of going into it blindly: of course they won't be. But it's an extremely bold investment which requires an enormous return to make it worthwhile; short, medium and long term.

This is not about whether it's a desirable thing to do this. Of course it is, and of course it will improve the club. But this thing has ultimately been done to pay for itself and then turn a profit, like all Abu Dhabi investments. Otherwise it's a waste of money.

I understand that city's profile mirrors Abu Dhabi, and that (probably combined with an element of it being a vanity/fun project) is why they accept the business running at an irrecuperable cumulative loss. But the club is clearly gunning like mad to at least get close to or into the black.

This has to be a risky way to try to achieve that. The good news, I suppose, is that if/when there are teething troubles (just like with the building of the football club) the well won't run dry. Because Sale Sharks or Stockport County aren't going to be buying this off us.

It's going to be intriguing to see how this works in reality.

Are you also taking into account the potential savings on not having to go in to the transfer market every window spending in the region of £30 mill + if we're producing through the academy.

I'm seeing it as a potential cash cow with the added luxury of us being able to pick the best fruit from the tree.

The pressure to stay top dogs will mean no end to big spending on the best the world has to offer, you only have to look at barca and real in the last two seasons
If dont have to spend on the best we wont but forsee that most seasons we will

 

[hertsblue]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Mail article to save you clicking on their advert full, slow running website:

Patrick Vieira is building a bright future at Manchester City... with a core group of English players
City trying to bring through English players for the future
Vieira looks to replicate German model, creating stars such as Manuel Neuer
Devante Cole one of those highly rated at the club
City look to make great people, as well as great players

By Adam Crafton

Published: 22:28, 5 August 2014 | Updated: 07:26, 6 August 2014




In broiling heat on the western tip of Croatia, Patrick Vieira is demanding that little bit more from his young Manchester City players.

‘Come on, come on, come on,’ he urges, with increasing cadence, as his elite development squad — or reserve team, in old money — play a two-touch, six-a-side game. ‘It’s hot, you are tired. Keep the ball. Never lose it.’

Vieira’s proteges, along with the Under 18 group, coached by former Blackburn winger Jason Wilcox, are in the quaint coastal town of Novigrad for a 10-day training camp set against the panoramic backdrop of the Adriatic Sea.

‘It’s not an army barracks but it’s also not five-star luxury and glam,’ says Mark Allen, head of the academy. ‘It offers the boys a taste, but we keep them grounded.’

‘We have a motto here,’ Wilcox begins. ‘Great person, great footballer. That means punctuality, appearance, work ethic, respect. You speak to cleaners how you speak to the manager.

‘You shake hands with every member of staff in the morning and when they leave at night. It’s vital.’

At the club’s Carrington training ground in Manchester, discipline is instilled in these young men. If they forget an item of kit, whether it be their water bottle or shin pads, they will not train. If they are late for a team meeting on match-day, they will not play.

FIVE OF THE TOP CITY YOUNGSTERS

Angus Gunn

Age: 18, Goalkeeper

He has endured some injury problems but re-emerged as one of the most exciting talents.


Ashley Smith-Brown

Age: 18, Defender

Assured as a full back, centre-half or central midfielder, he has already trained under Vieira and played for England Under 16s and Under 18s.


Tosin Adarabioyo

Age: 16, Defender

A commanding centreback, powerful and composed in possession. As a 15-year-old last season was regular in the the Under 18s defence.


Brandon Barker

Age: 17, Left winger

Direct and fast with a terrific left foot. In Jason Wilcox has the perfect mentor as a left winger.


Devante Cole

Age: 19, Forward

The son of Andrew, he can operate from the wing or up front. Was excellent in the UEF A Youth League last season.


‘It is basic good manners,’ Allen says, his face gleaming with pride. ‘Socks are rolled up, shirts are tucked in. I have a great picture where there are two players about to come on for England at youth level. You can tell immediately which one is a City player. His shirt is tidy, his shorts are right, shinpads are correct. It shows they are listening.’

There is a conscious effort to shield these teenagers from the trappings of fame. While adidas are already sponsoring some of City’s English 17-year-olds and agents have free rein to handpick the region’s finest talent, they are also given cookery and driving awareness classes.

City are looking to nurture players from the cradle to the gravy train of the Premier League but in the boardroom they recognise that improvement is required.

Since the Abu Dhabi takeover in the summer of 2008, no player has graduated from the City academy to cement a place in the first team squad.

Last September, City defeated Manchester United with 10 overseas, outfield players. English players Jack Rodwell — who signed for Sunderland yesterday — and Scott Sinclair started nine Premier League matches between them since signing two years ago.

‘We want to bring talent through our academy into our first team,’ says Vieira. ‘There are no borders in football but if there are seven or eight Manchester boys, then fantastic.’

Upbringing: The EDS team encourage their men to be great people as well as great footballers

Certainly, the potential is there: 30 of the 46 players in Croatia hail from the UK or Ireland. Light blue is increasingly the dominant colour in many of England’s young dressing rooms.

‘We had seven under-16s in the England squad last year,’ Wilcox reveals. ‘That was a record for us. We have some incredibly talented English players. Brandon Barker, Ashley Smith-Brown, Angus Gunn, Kean Bryan, Tosin Adarabioyo. The players are coming through.

‘Below the under-18 group, over 90 per cent of our academy is English. Recently we offered eight professional contracts and six of those are English boys.

‘Four of those six are local boys. It’s the ideal scenario but the wider you spread the net, the more chance you have of finding the gem.’

The seeds of talent are beginning to germinate. Last season, City’s Under 11s and Under 14s were national champions and the Under 18 side were northern league winners. Under Vieira, an Under 19 side reached the quarter-final of the UEFA Youth League. A 6-0 victory over Bayern Munich reverberated around Europe, with five English names on the team sheet.

Most are yet to be seen in the first team squad, something Vieira attributes to the ‘massive’ gap between youth competitions and the demands of elite football. It is why City are thought to remain receptive to discussions over B-teams in the lower tiers.

As the authorities prevaricate, City are single-minded in their aspiration and little encapsulates the journey from chip-fat to caviar quite like the money and dedication flowing into this academy.

Having invested heavily in the first team, securing two Premier League titles in three years, Sheik Mansour is now hard at work on City’s foundations.

Later this year, the £150m City Football Academy will open, a stone’s throw from the Etihad Stadium, where Tony Blair once intended to build a Super Casino.

It will boast facilities unrivalled in the English game and Rick Owen, a club kit man for more than 20 years, reflects: ‘We used to train on council pitches and do pre-season at a school between Stoke and Crewe. How times change.’

On this summer morning, it is a breathless training session in sticky, cloying conditions and Vieira has become irritated, noticing that his players have become attracted to the ball.

‘Stop, stop,’ he orders, his players freezing instantly. ‘Look at yourselves. Ten of you, all bunched together! How can you play like this? Look for the space, make the pitch bigger.’ He motions, spreading out his hands.

‘The boys need to understand this,’ Vieira insists. ‘When you have the ball, the pitch must be as big as possible. If you lose it, make it as tight as possible and then seven seconds, maximum, to win it back.

‘The best teams have a quick recovery. When you press, it is the whole team, high and fast, even the goalkeeper. Watch Manuel Neuer — unbelievable, he is like an old No 5. But he wasn’t born this way, he trained hard. If we start early, we can create these players.’

This, in a nutshell, is the club’s philosophy: an intoxicating brand of high-tempo, passing football that has been outlined by Allen, sporting director Txiki Begiristain and academy director Brian Marwood.

It is the identity that City now encourage at all levels, from the Under-11 group to the first team under Manuel Pellegrini.

Allen expands: ‘When I took the job four years ago I outlined a 10-year plan to really start to see a group of talent coming through together all playing the City way.

‘Cycles take time. In the late 90s it was France, then Spain, now Germany. Our moment will arrive.’

‘The numbers will not lie,’ Vieira concedes, puffing out his cheeks. ‘We have to make a report in 10 years on how many players are in the first team. Then we can say we did it right or we did it wrong

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

The ADUG investment on all fronts will have different implementation timelines, that is the reality.

We are now seeing the construction phase of the Campus 'catching up' with the player purchases and looking fantastic rather than just a building site.

The stadium is being improved without too much disruption as a result of state of the art planning yet still a major project.
Other construction projects are planned for (eg Medical block).

Patrick's 10 year plan is starting to bear fruit and has been recognised by the media (well done MCFC PR).

Not to mention the sterling work in constructing Partnerships with for example Nissan and the purchase of equity within other Clubs in diverse Continents.

Probably many aspects of the 'Project' that I have missed but be assured ADUG will have covered everything in their plan that is magnificent in its context and detail.

We can honestly look forward to it all integrating together to make City the envy of the football if not the sporting world.

OK UEFA and FIFA seem to be more interested in retaining the status quo and will naturally be suspicious of things done differently but eventually they will find, like all situations involving change, that they are either part of the change or part of the problem.
The complete Project has attained a 'Critical Mass' that those who oppose it will find to be unstoppable.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

You appear to be be only one getting it here, although I have no idea about the figures. Obviously there may be some intangible benefits, like persuading players to come who might not otherwise, especially young ones. But otherwise it's a massive spend. I'm not accusing the club of going into it blindly: of course they won't be. But it's an extremely bold investment which requires an enormous return to make it worthwhile; short, medium and long term.

This is not about whether it's a desirable thing to do this. Of course it is, and of course it will improve the club. But this thing has ultimately been done to pay for itself and then turn a profit, like all Abu Dhabi investments. Otherwise it's a waste of money.

I understand that city's profile mirrors Abu Dhabi, and that (probably combined with an element of it being a vanity/fun project) is why they accept the business running at an irrecuperable cumulative loss. But the club is clearly gunning like mad to at least get close to or into the black.

This has to be a risky way to try to achieve that. The good news, I suppose, is that if/when there are teething troubles (just like with the building of the football club) the well won't run dry. Because Sale Sharks or Stockport County aren't going to be buying this off us.

It's going to be intriguing to see how this works in reality.

Feel free to correct me if I have misunderstood.

But for example, say if the club has an annual £50 million put away for transfers each season and we only spend £20 million in the windows due to having a few youth players being promoted from our academy. Will the savings from the transfer window count as a return on investment?

A saving is still a return on investment. However, I think it's massively unrealistic to expect 20 million quid of talent to come through to the first team year on year. It just won't happen.
What is LIKELY to happen is that there will be lots of 'good' players leaving the academy which we will sell. For all intents and purposes, call it a player factory. If we have 20 players in the academy and we sell each for 500K, that's 10 million a year.

IF (big if) we spot a real talent, then great, we'll keep him and potentially guide him into the first team, where, even if he fails, we then might expect to be getting 1m for him instead of 500K (just an example).

And of course, we HOPE that having such great facilities will increase our odds of finding these young gems, but that's the icing on the cake (in my opinion). City surely must be relying on the bread and butter of an academy which is a player factory.

That's not to say City won't hope to be able to create a Barca type team where a core of young lads DO make it to the first team, I think that's our goal... I'm just saying that we must have a realistic view too that the academy will have to yield a good number of 'sellable' players at the same time.

I consider it a bit like a Chip manufacturer.... we'll keep or sell the high grade stuff for a premium, but we we have a process that ensures a minimum quality, and THAT yield is where we will focus most of our work. It's folly to expect another Barca or Fergie's kids. All we can do is lay a foundation where that COULD happen if we get lucky.

I totally agree with that.

However, when you look at the cost of English players these days it will not be hard for the academy to save money on transfers. Whether it represents value or not, eventually we are going to have to start bring in more home-grown players. When you see players like Rodwell going for £10 million and Henderson for £18ish Million we will be looking for at a fee of around this type for a midfielder who will be a squad player. If Emyr Huws can take up that role in our squad then that is already a hypothetical saving.

Like someone else pointed out it will take a lot for us to produce a world-class player but it should be a lot easier to produce our own squad players. United have done that for years with the likes of O'Shea, Brown and Richardson. Whilst none of them are world class they have each played a role in their success and earned them a transfer fee.

If we can do that with our academy then we should be onto a winner. After all if a player like Huws, Rekik or Lopez can do a job for us then they could turn out to be very important players for the likes of Sunderland and Newcastle. Add to that the British/ Home grown tax and these players could easily and realistically be worth £10+ million each in the next two seasons.

 

[oppa gangnam style]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

One basic thing, even at the best academies that most of the player never make it at the club. There are different generations, like Barca had Pique, Busquets, Fabregas, Messi already together in age of 14-15 years old, but since than most of other Barca talents nowhere near as great maybe only Pedro who is a few years younger and very good. (Even he wont be close to starting team next season.)

Certainly when Messi, Pique, Fabregas was playing in U16 games they had other teammates that ended up playing maybe Spanish second or third division or were sold abroad.
Bojan Krkic was said the next big thing few years stillwhen Guardiola was there but he just signed for Stoke because no one else really wanted him and didnt turn out for what they hoped.

Or we would look at Fergie boys, they had a good generation together in the early 1990's, but than it turned into the likes of Brown, O'shea who also played for years for them in a good squad role but were very far from world class players.

So I say certainly academies are important but you need a lucky generation that can really kick things off, but even it doesnt mean that next 5 years you will have similar talents coming out.

But if you can sell every talents or most talents that are not good enough for the first team for 1-2-3-4-5m pounds that is good business because most of them will go for lower table teams or even lower league teams.
(Like Mee and Trippier went to Burnley and worked hard and now they are back in the PL with Burnley hopefully they are fix starters for them and they can see how do they adapt to it, maybe Burnley will be shit and relegate but they will bought by other PL teams and like this they can have a nice PL career even if they are miles away from being good for current City first team.)

Question is for me is that do we look for the next Messi, Ibra, Kompany, so big future elite stars or do we look and try to bring to the first team simple future not so big players, squad players too.
In the role like Garcia is currently for the first team or Milner, who are not the big stars of the team but important parts of the squad or the bench.

If we only will give chance to the very best in first team like only to Marcos Lopes but only if he has a fantasic year at Lille, than it will be really hard to bring many trough, maybe 1-2 from U21 team, 1-2 from U19 and so on.

We are yet to really risk youth players, we stopped with this after the takeover, money was starting coming in, players were bought left right and centre, usually 2 or even 3 for 1 position, was hardly an ideal thing for youth players to break trough. Now lot more energy, money going into youth football at City, clear ideas, conception across the youth teams, its all good but its not a finished article until the first team will be involved with this and I mean a little bit more than choosing 2 League Cup games vs the Watfords or Blackburns when the chance of fuck up is small and throw in two youngsters for 45 minutes and then as stakes gets higher we never see them again in that season in first team.

But on the other side big decisions are made in the transfer window, as the first team squad nearly have 2 good or even great international players for every position, in a few positions its two very experienced players (left back, right back as example), and they want to play, so they may accept that they will be rotated a lot, but not sure they would accept, like Sagna would accept if he cant play FA/League Cup games not because Zabaleta is playing but because a huge RB talent is playing.
Its more than enough for him that he has to share game time with Zabaleta.
Same goes for Kolarov or Clichy. And we really could go trough every position like this.

Yeah there are injuries, suspensions, there will be time when Zab, Sagna could be injured at same time, but then we put Milner to play RB. We dont risk youth much these years in first team, only when stakes are really low (League cup at home vs Watford etc.) or friendlies...

We dont risk them because they are nowhere near good to be thrown in, thats possible, as some say if they would be ready they would play, but most of the time they dont have a chance to play as Kolarov gets injured Clichy is instantly there to step up.
Navas gets injured, Milner is there, Nasri is there.

We had quite a lot injuries to strikers last season Agüero, Jovetic, Negredo missed lot of weeks with bad form and/or injuries, yet Hiwula, Devante Cole or any other EDs strikers did not feature at all. We sometimes went for 1 striker tactics sooner than throw in some youngters.