Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[Wilf Wild 1937]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

[]It's not an issue of whether Sheikh Mansour has the wealth or inclination to finance the final stages of the expansion, but where we are as a football club in 3-4 years, and whether we are filling the expanded ground at that time. The plans are exciting, but the final stages of expansion sound to me like they are very much an if at the moment.

Fair comment.
I think 55,000 will cater for the lapsed Blues of yesteryear and 62,000 will also cater for the kids around Manchester & the tourists from
around the world who want to see the "big games". Going beyond that we probably do need to expand our match day support
beyond the Manchester city region in which it is concentrated. Given the fact that United & Liverpool have done this with continued
periods of success there is no reason that we can't do the same. I do agree though that currently that demand is not there.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

While I'm on the subject of impressive, I cam across this.

The new Atlanta Falcons stadium with retractable roof.

New Images Released

Design Concepts: June 26, 2014

With the ground broken on the new stadium site just over a month ago, the Falcons released nine new images of the iconic facility. Highlights of this design release include detailed views of the plazas and entryways just outside the stadium.

Click to enlarge.

If you're interested, click on the link for more renders and information?

[bigimg]http://i1.wp.com/newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/atl-stadium-concept-062614-007.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i0.wp.com/newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/atl-stadium-concept-062614-001.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i0.wp.com/newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/atl-stadium-concept-062614-008.jpg[/bigimg]

<a class="postlink" href="http://newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/</a>

That is a beautifully conceived stadium.

 

[flyer]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

There's two existing roof supports that are still there when the build is finished. They are shown protruding from the new glass facia. What are they doing if the roof has been raised?

If I have it right, they are still needed to hold the 'cable net' (ie ring of cable) for the inner edge of the existing roof. Take them away and nothing is supporting the existing roof at that end of the ground. The new roof won't be tied into the old as such and doesn't support it.

Makes sense now you explain it. Cheers

 

[ste.sully]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Just like everyone else I love the plans of the expand Etihad stadium. Once it's complete it's going to be the best stadium in the country. It's definitely going to be comparable with Wembley and the Emirates, if not better? However, I'm going to put the Cat amongst the Pigeons and flag up one fault.(in my opinion)

TBH it won't ever affect me as I won't use the facility. However, I did pick up on it straightaway. I'm sure others have as well. It's the pillars outside the Legends Lounge, supporting the overhang.

Click to enlarge.

[bigimg]http://i.imgur.com/ahHYtkv.jpg[/bigimg]

I assuming people who book tables at the legends won't be able to watch the match through the windows as they will be drinking alcohol, but booking a table in front or either side of the pillars is a bit of a pisser in my opinion. We've probably all had to suffer from restricted views at one time or another.

I'm also wonder why the pillars have been added to support the overhang? The current level two overhangs aren't supported by pillars. And on the renders/plans, the level 3 overhangs don't look that big in comparison to the level 2 overhangs. Any ideas anyone?

That minor bug aside, the plans are really impressive.

The club would have been given the choice by architects and engineers for two structural configurations.

The first option would be to have a classic grid of supporting columns (in lounge area) which would have allowed a cantilevered tier (i.e. without the clunky columns you can see on the renders). The second option would have been to simply support the end of the tier with columns which would allow column-free space for the lounge area. Obviously from the above render, the latter configuration was selected.

A column-free space allows you to host exhibitions, presentation, functions with getting in the way. I imagine the club want this new space to be used by companies, local organisation etc. for functions and events - similar to Old Trafford Cricket Ground really. Not to mention columns can be very awkward for restaurant layouts.

The existing cantilevered 3rd tiers can be explained through the load-bearing walls/columns which of course, exist between private boxes. Those load-bearing columns and walls allow the tier to cantilever out by about 4-5 metres and under this space there are external seats for people in the boxes to watch the match outside. The natural steep incline of the third tier means a cantilever is not really possible but it gives you a few metres to work with.

The 2nd tier cantilevering over the 1st tiers are simply cantilevered structures. The concrete is strong enough for a good 6-8 metres cantilever and it is able to support the dead load of the structure and live load of the supporters. However if you do a Poznan at the front of the second tier you will probably feel the deflection much more than you would if you were in the middle of the third tier.

I've said for many years the Etihad is a very clever stadium structurally. Only the London Velodrome and Wembley Stadium can compete with it. Many of the architecture team went on to work on the Allianz Arena and Bird's Nest Stadium but they remained very proud of the Etihad because on a pound to pound basis it was the most impressive stadium.

 

[john@staustell]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

[]It's not an issue of whether Sheikh Mansour has the wealth or inclination to finance the final stages of the expansion, but where we are as a football club in 3-4 years, and whether we are filling the expanded ground at that time. The plans are exciting, but the final stages of expansion sound to me like they are very much an if at the moment.

Fair comment.
I think 55,000 will cater for the lapsed Blues of yesteryear and 62,000 will also cater for the kids around Manchester & the tourists from
around the world who want to see the "big games". Going beyond that we probably do need to expand our match day support
beyond the Manchester city region in which it is concentrated. Given the fact that United & Liverpool have done this with continued
periods of success there is no reason that we can't do the same. I do agree though that currently that demand is not there.

You only have to follow the tragectory of the RAGs expansions. They didn't sell out every match in 1989,90 etc at a capacity of 46,000. Didn't take long to alter that with a bit of success and marketing.

I believe we could have mostly filled 60,000 the last season (47,000 clearly too small, if you sell out every match). From that point of view we are just playing catch up, and by the time we have 62,000 capacity we will need more. If our success on and off the field continues of course.

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Considering ADUG are an investment Group and are constructing to invest I have often thought that the changing of an existing Stadium is not necessarily the best way to invest even though Event income supplements are currently a welcome revenue stream (for FFP purposes).

Perhaps splitting these two functions into two individual venues may, in time, make sense.

Is a new Stadium completely out of the question ?

 

[dawlish dave]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Considering ADUG are an investment Group and are constructing to invest I have often thought that the changing of an existing Stadium is not necessarily the best way to invest even though Event income supplements are currently a welcome revenue stream (for FFP purposes).

Perhaps splitting these two functions into two individual venues may, in time, make sense.

Is a new Stadium completely out of the question ?

In answer to your ?, "not in my lifetime".
I am 71 by the way, please can we all keep our feet on the ground, in life the only thing certain is change itself but for now lets enjoy the envy of others, and yes there is loads of that about.
2008 was a new day dawning for many of us of from the older generation of fans that we never ever expected to see.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Considering ADUG are an investment Group and are constructing to invest I have often thought that the changing of an existing Stadium is not necessarily the best way to invest even though Event income supplements are currently a welcome revenue stream (for FFP purposes).

Perhaps splitting these two functions into two individual venues may, in time, make sense.

Is a new Stadium completely out of the question ?

In answer to your ?, "not in my lifetime".
I am 71 by the way, please can we all keep our feet on the ground, in life the only thing certain is change itself but for now lets enjoy the envy of others, and yes there is loads of that about.
2008 was a new day dawning for many of us of from the older generation of fans that we never ever expected to see.

61 years old i never thought i`d see the day again, loving every minute of it.

 

[petrusha]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Considering ADUG are an investment Group and are constructing to invest I have often thought that the changing of an existing Stadium is not necessarily the best way to invest even though Event income supplements are currently a welcome revenue stream (for FFP purposes).

Perhaps splitting these two functions into two individual venues may, in time, make sense.

Is a new Stadium completely out of the question ?

This has been discussed on the thread before, and on its predecessor. Not being arsey, though, because new people come on all the time and can't be expected to be aware of that.

I'm led to believe that they looked seriously at the possibility of a new stadium in 2009, with an 80K venue on the land where the north car parks currently are being the favoured option. The problem was that Sport England intimated that we wouldn't be allowed to knock down the existing stadium even if we offered to build a new one in its place. City looked at the viability of keeping the existing stadium for rugby/athletics/concerts (possibly taking out the bottom tier and reducing capacity to 30K).

I thought that would have been great, with MCFC occupying a stunning new state-of-the-art venue. However, ADUG apparently felt that it wasn't financially viable, by which I suspect that they mean the land could be put to other, more profitable use.

They've now embarked on a major upgrade that will take capacity up by nearly 15,000 in the next three years (if we start the North Stand immediately after the South is done, then we're presumably looking at the 62K-ish for season 2017/8). My guess is that this confirms we're sticking with this stadium for the foreseeable future. Pity, as I'd have loved to see what kind of new stadium ADUG would have built.

EDIT - Not that I'm complaining. Not at all. Fantastic times we have now.

 

[keith's curle]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

You only have to follow the tragectory of the RAGs expansions. They didn't sell out every match in 1989,90 etc at a capacity of 46,000. Didn't take long to alter that with a bit of success and marketing.

I believe we could have mostly filled 60,000 the last season (47,000 clearly too small, if you sell out every match). From that point of view we are just playing catch up, and by the time we have 62,000 capacity we will need more. If our success on and off the field continues of course.

Not disagreeing with the above, but weren't everybody's attendances down in the 80's and 90's? I don't think it was just us!
The implication would seem to be that we should be able to increase capacity quicker than those teams that became successful from that time on.

 

[BlueTG]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

While I'm on the subject of impressive, I cam across this.

The new Atlanta Falcons stadium with retractable roof.

New Images Released

Design Concepts: June 26, 2014

With the ground broken on the new stadium site just over a month ago, the Falcons released nine new images of the iconic facility. Highlights of this design release include detailed views of the plazas and entryways just outside the stadium.

Click to enlarge.

If you're interested, click on the link for more renders and information?

[bigimg]http://i1.wp.com/newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/atl-stadium-concept-062614-007.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i0.wp.com/newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/atl-stadium-concept-062614-001.jpg[/bigimg]

[bigimg]http://i0.wp.com/newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/atl-stadium-concept-062614-008.jpg[/bigimg]

<a class="postlink" href="http://newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://newstadium.atlantafalcons.com/</a>

That is a beautifully conceived stadium.

Inside the stadia is very impressive, outside looks atrocious.

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Considering ADUG are an investment Group and are constructing to invest I have often thought that the changing of an existing Stadium is not necessarily the best way to invest even though Event income supplements are currently a welcome revenue stream (for FFP purposes).

Perhaps splitting these two functions into two individual venues may, in time, make sense.

Is a new Stadium completely out of the question ?

This has been discussed on the thread before, and on its predecessor. Not being arsey, though, because new people come on all the time and can't be expected to be aware of that.

I'm led to believe that they looked seriously at the possibility of a new stadium in 2009, with an 80K venue on the land where the north car parks currently are being the favoured option. The problem was that Sport England intimated that we wouldn't be allowed to knock down the existing stadium even if we offered to build a new one in its place. City looked at the viability of keeping the existing stadium for rugby/athletics/concerts (possibly taking out the bottom tier and reducing capacity to 30K).

I thought that would have been great, with MCFC occupying a stunning new state-of-the-art venue. However, ADUG apparently felt that it wasn't financially viable, by which I suspect that they mean the land could be put to other, more profitable use.

They've now embarked on a major upgrade that will take capacity up by nearly 15,000 in the next three years (if we start the North Stand immediately after the South is done, then we're presumably looking at the 62K-ish for season 2017/8). My guess is that this confirms we're sticking with this stadium for the foreseeable future. Pity, as I'd have loved to see what kind of new stadium ADUG would have built.

EDIT - Not that I'm complaining. Not at all. Fantastic times we have now.

Many thanks for your patient explanation.
As you say my newness to the Forum will show from time to time. Incidentally, I have yet to see a Forum where every post is unique in its slant of topic / content.

However, whilst I appreciate this is an Etihad thread, would a second Venue be a possibility (say an O2 type). ?
I repeat that ADUG are an investment group so I am not getting 'carried away', ie the potential of such a project is not exclusively concerned with MCFC and its Stadium.

 

[fbloke]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Considering ADUG are an investment Group and are constructing to invest I have often thought that the changing of an existing Stadium is not necessarily the best way to invest even though Event income supplements are currently a welcome revenue stream (for FFP purposes).

Perhaps splitting these two functions into two individual venues may, in time, make sense.

Is a new Stadium completely out of the question ?

This has been discussed on the thread before, and on its predecessor. Not being arsey, though, because new people come on all the time and can't be expected to be aware of that.

I'm led to believe that they looked seriously at the possibility of a new stadium in 2009, with an 80K venue on the land where the north car parks currently are being the favoured option. The problem was that Sport England intimated that we wouldn't be allowed to knock down the existing stadium even if we offered to build a new one in its place. City looked at the viability of keeping the existing stadium for rugby/athletics/concerts (possibly taking out the bottom tier and reducing capacity to 30K).

I thought that would have been great, with MCFC occupying a stunning new state-of-the-art venue. However, ADUG apparently felt that it wasn't financially viable, by which I suspect that they mean the land could be put to other, more profitable use.

They've now embarked on a major upgrade that will take capacity up by nearly 15,000 in the next three years (if we start the North Stand immediately after the South is done, then we're presumably looking at the 62K-ish for season 2017/8). My guess is that this confirms we're sticking with this stadium for the foreseeable future. Pity, as I'd have loved to see what kind of new stadium ADUG would have built.

EDIT - Not that I'm complaining. Not at all. Fantastic times we have now.

Many thanks for your patient explanation.
As you say my newness to the Forum will show from time to time. Incidentally, I have yet to see a Forum where every post is unique in its slant of topic / content.

However, whilst I appreciate this is an Etihad thread, would a second Venue be a possibility (say an O2 type). ?
I repeat that ADUG are an investment group so I am not getting 'carried away', ie the potential of such a project is not exclusively concerned with MCFC and its Stadium.

I think you will find that an indoor arena (plus other elements of a visitor attraction) are indeed going to b found on the collar site.

 

[keith's curle]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

However, whilst I appreciate this is an Etihad thread, would a second Venue be a possibility (say an O2 type). ?
I repeat that ADUG are an investment group so I am not getting 'carried away', ie the potential of such a project is not exclusively concerned with MCFC and its Stadium.

Its certainly not a stupid question as its been asked before on this thread (more than once, I think). Not too far back was a discussion of Manchester's venues for concerts etc and a discussion of the chances of building a good venue on the collar site. I think the consensus was that there was a size range not catered for, but that the space on the collar site would be better used for other things. If you've nothing better to do you could try going back a bit and looking through it, it was worth a read. I think it was just before the Belle Vue revamp.

 

[Centurions]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

However, whilst I appreciate this is an Etihad thread, would a second Venue be a possibility (say an O2 type). ?
I repeat that ADUG are an investment group so I am not getting 'carried away', ie the potential of such a project is not exclusively concerned with MCFC and its Stadium.

Its certainly not a stupid question as its been asked before on this thread (more than once, I think). Not too far back was a discussion of Manchester's venues for concerts etc and a discussion of the chances of building a good venue on the collar site. I think the consensus was that there was a size range not catered for, but that the space on the collar site would be better used for other things. If you've nothing better to do you could try going back a bit and looking through it, it was worth a read. I think it was just before the Belle Vue revamp.

Also anything built on the collar site is probably going to be going through MCFC's books as income I'd have thought.

 

[petrusha]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

There's rumoured to be a smallish futsal arena nestled in by the canal. Also - and I'm not sure exactly where it will be sited, but somewhere either on the collar site or north car parks - there's likely to be an arena. Not, I don't think, a 20K facility to compete with or replace the Arena in town. (People keep suggesting this but it isn't going to happen). Think more in terms of a flexible venue that can be reconfigured to host conferences, indoor sports and concerts (the latter up to a capacity of maybe 6K or 7K) something along these lines: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.adnec.ae/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.adnec.ae/</a>

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

There's rumoured to be a smallish futsal arena nestled in by the canal. Also - and I'm not sure exactly where it will be sited, but somewhere either on the collar site or north car parks - there's likely to be an arena. Not, I don't think, a 20K facility to compete with or replace the Arena in town. (People keep suggesting this but it isn't going to happen). Think more in terms of a flexible venue that can be reconfigured to host conferences, indoor sports and concerts (the latter up to a capacity of maybe 6K or 7K) something along these lines: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.adnec.ae/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.adnec.ae/</a>

Not suggesting you are wrong but is this your informed opinion or just opinion ?

 

[petrusha]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

There's rumoured to be a smallish futsal arena nestled in by the canal. Also - and I'm not sure exactly where it will be sited, but somewhere either on the collar site or north car parks - there's likely to be an arena. Not, I don't think, a 20K facility to compete with or replace the Arena in town. (People keep suggesting this but it isn't going to happen). Think more in terms of a flexible venue that can be reconfigured to host conferences, indoor sports and concerts (the latter up to a capacity of maybe 6K or 7K) something along these lines: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.adnec.ae/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.adnec.ae/</a>

Not suggesting you are wrong but is this your informed opinion or just opinion ?

The idea of a futsal arena was posted by someone on here.

The rest is based on private comments from someone privy to information that's not in the public domain. It could be wrong and it could have been right at the time with things changing since then, because these kinds of plans do evolve over time. However, it seems to me that there's strong logic that would suggest it that putting this kind of facility makes sense: it would encourage daily footfall, bringing in visitors who would use other facilities on the collar site; it would help to create a 'destination of national and international significance', which is a stated objective mentioned in Council documents more than once; and it would give Manchester a facility of the type and capacity it currently lacks, complementing rather than competing with the city's current offer.

 

[SilverFox2]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

@Petrusha

Many thanks for your logic on that.

As you say things evolve and maybe it is one for the future in different part of the Country if the 'Council' disapprove.

 

[Manchester1894]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site (cont

Today's twitpics courtesy of the wonderfly named @speckyninja

[bigimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br4cNQ7IcAAnMSJ.jpg:large[/bigimg]
[bigimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br4cNbIIYAAgq2T.jpg:large[/bigimg]
[bigimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br4cNbOIYAAUDVw.jpg:large[/bigimg]
[bigimg]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br4cNamIAAAmVJJ.jpg:large[/bigimg]