Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[LongsightM13]

This thread is descending into fantasy once more. There is zero chance of getting a new tram line/heavy rail link or a fleet of electric buses or any other major capital investment to cover a maximum of 19 League matches, 8 cup ties and 6 European matches (33). The minimum will likely be 22 matches. On average 26-27 matches is about as high as it gets. What will this infrastructure be used for out of season and on non-match days?

Improving the public transport depends on other developments taking place and will always be constrained by the relatively short distance on the Campus from the City Centre. Many will continue to prefer to walk.

Obviously the Co-Op Live Arena will help, but much more, in the form of the likes of house building, will be needed before significant investment in public transportation could be justified.

Tbf they created a ghost line out to the rapidly emptying Trafford centre that nobody uses apart from Kellogs factory staff

 

[Holcombe bloo]

For me, especially travelling from the north of GM like you, the buses are the bigger problem. They get stuck in traffic or take weird convoluted routes as they approach the city but then end in the wrong places. In my instance I could catch a bus into Manchester but it takes over an hour and eventually drops me off at Shudehill, but I can't catch a useful connection going further south (it seems), so I have to walk to Piccadilly Gardens. Granted it's not far but the whole process fails in terms of the duration of the journey(s) and convenience.

Don't you have the X41 from Rammy?

Yes bus is a bit of a drag I guess as it is x41 once an hour I think and doesn’t stop near my house, it’s usually hammered full too. Just think if there was a bus using bus lanes where they exist straight from a free to park and ride in bury I’d be more inclined to use it.

 

[JGL07]

Not necessarily so.

The match day issue is more about organisation than investment particularly post match.

The numbers leaving the stadium and using the Metro are reasonably predictable after 10 years of operation.

Man has walked on the moon ....so why isn't it possible to run enough correctly sized trams for 1post match hour to city centre locations 3/4 miles away ?

To attempt to find excuses for this lamentable state of affairs is frankly pathetic.

Most informed people understand that the investment issue is now more difficult than it would've been at the outset but CITY are now responsible for generating £ MILLIONS £ for the Manchester economy that wasn't the case when Metro was first scoped.

The club will have had/will be having pragmatic discussions with Metro/Council about all issues, particularly with the Arena emerging and a capacity increase coming.

Perhaps we should be like the French and take direct action and randomly block the network, cos the status quo is not acceptable !!

If you bothered to read my post, I did not comment on the efficiency of the working of Metrolink but on the unfeasibility of some of the proposals being put forward for grandiose infrastructure schemes.

 

[Holcombe bloo]

This thread is descending into fantasy once more. There is zero chance of getting a new tram line/heavy rail link or a fleet of electric buses or any other major capital investment to cover a maximum of 19 League matches, 8 cup ties and 6 European matches (33). The minimum will likely be 22 matches. On average 26-27 matches is about as high as it gets. What will this infrastructure be used for out of season and on non-match days?

Improving the public transport depends on other developments taking place and will always be constrained by the relatively short distance on the Campus from the City Centre. Many will continue to prefer to walk.

Obviously the Co-Op Live Arena will help, but much more, in the form of the likes of house building, will be needed before significant investment in public transportation could be justified.

The new arena is roughly a year away and will be approx 100 to 120 events a year plus our 28-30 events a year is plenty to justify a spend of £100 to 200million on transport to help flow for me. I can’t see why city and silverlake wouldn’t go halves with the council and gmpt. The investment in transport infrastructure will draw in more investment for hotel/casino, retail, housing all driving up the value of the investment city and silverlake have made. It’s a snowball effect, like the met did for places like whitefield, Or the steam railway did for ramsbottom where I live.
if people can’t get in and out easily they won’t come. Silverlake and city have invested hundreds of millions they will do their bit if the council etc match it to further drive forward the improvement of the area and Manchester as a whole.
Look at Wembley and the regeneration round it in the last 10 years, their wouldn’t be half of what’s there without transport infrastrupture spend that’s been provided. I’m not expecting that level of investment I’d hope particularly if labour get in next that success stories like Manchester will be accelerated. London has had its turn for long enough!

 

[dadnlad]

For me, especially travelling from the north of GM like you, the buses are the bigger problem. They get stuck in traffic or take weird convoluted routes as they approach the city but then end in the wrong places. In my instance I could catch a bus into Manchester but it takes over an hour and eventually drops me off at Shudehill, but I can't catch a useful connection going further south (it seems), so I have to walk to Piccadilly Gardens. Granted it's not far but the whole process fails in terms of the duration of the journey(s) and convenience.

Don't you have the X41 from Rammy?

mentioned before i dont know why they dont build busway as in liegh buses only road into edge of town say ancotes and turned round

 

[jrb]

If anyone is interested?

Transport investment and spending.

Nothing to do with the thread topic or Metrolink, but an interesting video looking at Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR).

Note the difference in transport infrastructure spending per person between the regions. The North, other regions, London - 2009/10 to 2019/20. (screen grab from the video)



So far, on Railways Explained we dedicated several videos to the area of the United Kingdom. They are related to the construction of the Channel Tunnel, projects High Speed 1 and High Speed 2, and even there was one comprehensive video about the Elizabeth Line (Crossrail).

Today our topic is a project of an exciting name - the Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR).

This project represents a counterweight to all earlier mentioned UK projects, which all relate to the southern part of the country. The Northern Powerhouse Rail is a proposal that aims not only to improve the railway service but to become a trigger to boost the economic development of northern England.

After years of revisions and negotiations, a final NPR strategy was agreed upon by all stakeholders in 2021, and it set out a vision of new and upgraded rail connections across the North. It includes:

- a new line between Liverpool and Manchester via central Warrington,
- upgrades and journey-time improvements between Manchester and Sheffield,
- a new line between Manchester and Leeds via a new station in central Bradford,
- upgrades to the East Coast Mainline between Leeds and Newcastle, - upgrades and electrification between Leeds and Hull and Leeds and Sheffield,
- connection of Sheffield to the HS2 Eastern Leg and Leeds.

Full background story, including the socio-economic rationale behind NPR, but also different preceding similar initiatives, detailed scope, projected costs and benefits, current issues, and political obstacles, were all addressed in the video.

 

[Corky]

I heard Harvey Stiles was in talks with TFGM about a monorail system. It only goes one direction though.

Seen as it has turned into a fiction/comedy thread.

Statement of accounts

Accounts and audit information for Transport for Greater Manchester and a summary of revenue budget estimates and capital expenditure plans

tfgm.com

 

[EL APACHE TEVEZ]

Still Checking the foundations

 

[jrb]

It took a decade to get Metrolink from Piccadilly Station to the Etihad. Metrolink was supposed to be up and running for the 2002 Manchester Commonwealth Games. It arrived in 2012!(ha!)

New Labour, Alistair Darling, killed the Metrolink Big Bang proposal.

PLANS for the "Big Bang" extension of Greater Manchester's tram network were blocked today - after the government pulled the plug on cash to fund the three new lines.

End of the line for Big Bang tram plan

PLANS for the "Big Bang" extension of Greater Manchester's tram network were blocked today - after the government pulled the plug on cash to fund the three new lines.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

After a bitter and huge campaign by MCC, Gtr MCR MP’s, Businesses in Gtr Manchester, the MUEN and Mancunians, New Labour funded a “Little Bang” extension instead.

Metrolink wins a 'Little Bang'

PLANS to expand the Metrolink tram system across Greater Manchester were finally expected to be given the go-ahead.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

The issue is that the government seem to forget that the Metrolink is a service, not a money making machine. If they want it to be reliable and useful to the people they shouldn't be so focused on profits, it will never make a big enough profit to entirely self fund extensions and upgrades. You wouldn't ask the army or the police or the NHS to try and make huge profits and I believe the Metrolink should be treated the same way.