Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[Marvin]

Wembley . But the transport connections are 10 times better than what we have with the Etihad.

Can you walk to Wembley from London Euston?

Manchester City centre is defined by the inner ring road (mancunian way, Great Ancoats St, Trninity Way) and it's about a 2km across, and within that zone it has two major main line stations.

I'd say the problems City fans and Mancunians have are not really local but how the local interfaces with the national i.e. getting into and out of Manchester without using the car. The national rail network needs massive upgrades.

I am a big fan of the pedestrianisation schemes in Manchester. I like the Oxford Rd corridor. I hope schemes like that are extended to other arterial routes in and around Manchester, however it needs to be accompanied by schemes which can bring people into and out of the City because they work against cars. Trains need massive upgrades both nationally and locally.

Part of the reason City struggle with midweek games is because long distance seasonticket holders can not travel to City and back home because we don't have a national transport structure that is ft for purpose. We have profiteering train companies who charge an arm and a leg to travel to London.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

Part of the reason City struggle with midweek games is because long distance seasonticket holders can not travel to City and back home because we don't have a national transport structure that is ft for purpose. We have profiteering train companies who charge an arm and a leg to travel to London.

Over the past 20+ years Manchester has put all its eggs in the Metrolink basket and there has been comparatively little investment in what you could call suburban rail. Mayor Burnham's plan is to carry on with this, e.g. proposals to convert existing heavy rail lines to trams or to deploy tram-train technology.

The contrast with other big regional cities in the UK is interesting: e.g. Bristol, Leeds and Birmingham all have plans to re-open heavy rail lines and/or re-open stations that were previously closed or build new ones. e.g. there are advanced proposals to build 4 new stations in Leeds, maybe 7-8 in Birmingham/Black Country, 4-5 in Bristol and at least 2 in Liverpool.

By contrast, I am can't off the top of my head think of any advanced proposals to re-open any closed railway stations in the Greater Manchester area. Manchester now has the dubious distinction of having the least used railway station in the whole of Great Britain (Denton).

Train services in Manchester are currently crippled by under-investment in capacity. As a result it is very likely that services through Piccadilly P13/14 will have to be reduced by 2 trains per hour to improve reliability.

 

[Marvin]

Over the past 20+ years Manchester has put all its eggs in the Metrolink basket and there has been comparatively little investment in what you could call suburban rail. Mayor Burnham's plan is to carry on with this, e.g. proposals to convert existing heavy rail lines to trams or to deploy tram-train technology.

The contrast with other big regional cities in the UK is interesting: e.g. Bristol, Leeds and Birmingham all have plans to re-open heavy rail lines and/or re-open stations that were previously closed or build new ones. e.g. there are advanced proposals to build 4 new stations in Leeds, maybe 7-8 in Birmingham/Black Country, 4-5 in Bristol and at least 2 in Liverpool.

By contrast, I am can't off the top of my head think of any advanced proposals to re-open any closed railway stations in the Greater Manchester area. Manchester now has the dubious distinction of having the least used railway station in the whole of Great Britain (Denton).

Train services in Manchester are currently crippled by under-investment in capacity. As a result it is very likely that services through Piccadilly P13/14 will have to be reduced by 2 trains per hour to improve reliability.

There seems to be two issues here.

Travel from Manchester City centre to the arena and the Etihad and travel to manchester.

Imo there is no general problem in navigating 2km from etihad to Manchester City centre, rather it's there that the problems begin because for 50 years we were a car economy and everything else was left to stagnate. Now the authorities actively work against car drivers but can't offer a national rail alternative. We have the legacy of a train network built in another era that has just been kept ticking over.

Needs massive investment now.

I have been to Leeds. Reminds me of Manchester. A train station down in the City centre and an old Victorian city built around it that's very easy to get around. Only difference is they have hills. They have some wonderful old buildings. They don't have the high rise towers that Manchester has recenty built apart from one or two cheap looking towers which look like student accommodation.

 

[WARBABY]

rain services in Manchester are currently crippled by under-investment in capacity. As a result it is very likely that services through Piccadilly P13/14 will have to be reduced by 2 trains per hour to improve reliability.

platforms 13 & 14 were they the old Mayfield station adjacent to London Road Station before it changed its name to Picadilly Station

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

There seems to be two issues here.

Travel from Manchester City centre to the arena and the Etihad and travel to manchester.

Imo there is no general problem in navigating 2km from etihad to Manchester City centre, rather it's there that the problems begin because for 50 years we were a car economy and everything else was left to stagnate. Now the authorities actively work against car drivers but can't offer a national rail alternative. We have the legacy of a train network built in another era that has just been kept ticking over.

Needs massive investment now.

In the long term I hope rail can play a part but this will need some real vision on the part of the mayor/City Council, Network Rail and landowners (including CFG) so that a successful case for investment can be made to DfT and HMT.

in the short-to-medium term we as fans probably need to put some pressure on for enhancements to what we already have, i.e. Metrolink and bus. Like you I'm happy to walk from Piccadilly but sometimes I travel by tram from Ashton West and the tram back to sshton is hopeless. On occasions I have walked as far as halfway between Droylsden and Audenshaw before being overtaken by an Ashton-bound tram...

I know there are plans for a 6-minute frequency on the Ashton line, and this would increase capacity significantly. But has anyone ever looked at constructing a west-facing bay platform at the Etihad? This would mean that the Etihad could be a terminal destination for trams (a bit like Media City on the Eccles line) as well continuing to provide the through service to Ashton etc.. A bay platform would potentially provide a big boost to the ability of the trams to move large numbers away quickly in the direction of Manchester, especially if it was long enough for say two double unit trams. To achieve this they may need to relocate the tram stop as the current location doesn't seem to provide enough room for an extra platform. There seems to be room behind the athletics track though.

One thing they definitely need to address is the Merril St bottleneck. Something as simple as CCTV to help prevent taxis from trying to do u-turns would help, as this seems to be a major reason why empty trams cant get back to the stadium after the match. ​

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

platforms 13 & 14 were they the old Mayfield station adjacent to London Road Station before it changed its name to Picadilly Station

No P13/14 are the current through platforms for trains going east-west, say Chester to Manchester Airport or Liverpool-Sheffield.

The stretch of rails between P13/14 through Oxford Rd and Deansgate is pretty much the most congested piece of rail infrastructure in Britain. It has got to the stage where it is unsafe which is why there are always 2-3 shouty staff on P14 telling everyone waiting to stand behind the red line.

Manchester Piccadilly handles over 30 million passengers per year and just over 50% of these use P13/14. There are plans for two new platforms (P15/16) at Piccadilly plus longer platforms at Oxford rd and junction improvements at Castlefield/Ordsall to help speed things up. A previous transport minister (Chris Grayling) wouldn't sign the cheque to get the work done so it has been on hold for 5 years.

However there is a strong rumour that the investment will be finally announced in the March budget - the improvements will cost at least £800 million (and in reality probably over a billion).
Mayfield Station is the derelict red brick building you can see if you stand on Platform 14 and look east. It is about to be redeveloped for housing, offices, leisure and other stuff.

The proposed new platforms 15/16 will be built over Fairfield Road alongside the existing P13/14..

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

No P13/14 are the current through platforms for trains going east-west, say Chester to Manchester Airport or Liverpool-Sheffield.

The stretch of rails between P13/14 through Oxford Rd and Deansgate is pretty much the most congested piece of rail infrastructure in Britain. It has got to the stage where it is unsafe which is why there are always 2-3 shouty staff on P14 telling everyone waiting to stand behind the red line.

Manchester Piccadilly handles over 30 million passengers per year and just over 50% of these use P13/14. There are plans for two new platforms (P15/16) at Piccadilly plus longer platforms at Oxford rd and junction improvements at Castlefield/Ordsall to help speed things up. A previous transport minister (Chris Grayling) wouldn't sign the cheque to get the work done so it has been on hold for 5 years.

However there is a strong rumour that the investment will be finally announced in the March budget - the improvements will cost at least £800 million (and in reality probably over a billion).
Mayfield Station is the derelict red brick building you can see if you stand on Platform 14 and look east. It is about to be redeveloped for housing, offices, leisure and other stuff.

The proposed new platforms 15/16 will be built over Fairfield Road alongside the existing P13/14..

Desperately needs doing, can't believe with the new timetables we have brand new trains and journeys across the pennines are 10/15 minutes slower if they happen at all. Just ludicrous.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Can you walk to Wembley from London Euston?

Manchester City centre is defined by the inner ring road (mancunian way, Great Ancoats St, Trninity Way) and it's about a 2km across, and within that zone it has two major main line stations.

I'd say the problems City fans and Mancunians have are not really local but how the local interfaces with the national i.e. getting into and out of Manchester without using the car. The national rail network needs massive upgrades.

I am a big fan of the pedestrianisation schemes in Manchester. I like the Oxford Rd corridor. I hope schemes like that are extended to other arterial routes in and around Manchester, however it needs to be accompanied by schemes which can bring people into and out of the City because they work against cars. Trains need massive upgrades both nationally and locally.

Part of the reason City struggle with midweek games is because long distance seasonticket holders can not travel to City and back home because we don't have a national transport structure that is ft for purpose. We have profiteering train companies who charge an arm and a leg to travel to London.

Indeed. And with last trains being at ridiculous times like 10:08.

Even local fans who don’t have cars struggle with getting to the Etihad after work (many people don’t get out of work until 18:00) on slow road public transport (all of our public transport is stuck on the same roads as the car traffic at some point on the way to the Etihad) and/or struggle to get home with last Mets being earlier than midnight.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

Indeed. And with last trains being at ridiculous times like 10:08.

Even local fans who don’t have cars struggle with getting to the Etihad after work (many people don’t get out of work until 18:00) on slow road public transport (all of our public transport is stuck on the same roads as the car traffic at some point on the way to the Etihad) and/or struggle to get home with last Mets being earlier than midnight.

Agreed, the evening timetable at Piccadilly starts to wind down at least an hour sooner than it should. This hasn't changed in over 20 years despite everything that is said about the importance of the 'evening economy'

 

[mcfcinprague]

platforms 13 & 14 were they the old Mayfield station adjacent to London Road Station before it changed its name to Picadilly Station

Platforms 13 and 14 have always been part of what is now Piccadilly. Mayfield station was always a separate building which had 4 platforms.