Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site

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Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

bluemoondays said:
LongsightM13 said:
bluebannana said:
completley agree, dont tell anyone on here though as soon as you say you struggle to afford tickets everyone jumps on you with " city are one of the cheapest in the league" maybe they are, but it doesnt mean its cheap, especially with family and bills to pay.
An under 16s season ticket at City was £95 for the last three seasons.
Adult tickets could be had for around £350.
How much do holidays, the latest clothes, computers, video games, nights in the pub etc cost over a year?
Everything is relative. If people want it, they will make sacrifices by not spending so much on other things.
I'd be very surprised if our ST prices don't eventually end up maybe 10-20% less than the rags - I do think they will always be cheaper.

Their match day revenue across the season is about £110m compared to ours of around £20m (maybe we can squeeze out another £5m from full houses and better cup runs), they get 5 x our revenue from a stadium less than double the size......... (got the figures from Swiss Ramble). Even the dippers with a slightly smaller stadium get in more than double our money with £43m.

At some point we should be getting at least Liverpools income from our current ground and Liverpool is not a more affluent area than Manchester. I don't see how we can indefinitely keep giving up over £80m/season the rags and stay competitive over the long term. The only other option would be for us to coin it in with the other proposed developments and effectively use them to subsidise the ticket prices.......


Are you sure thats right about match day income only being £20 million?
We have at least 22 home game sell outs per season now and that must equate to at least £22 million,without what people spend whilst at and in the ground.We also have two domestic cup competitions where some of those games are played at home,even with 30000 gates it still adds significant revenue to your figures.And thats not taking into account the corporate and hospitality revenue.
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

flb said:
bluemoondays said:
LongsightM13 said:
An under 16s season ticket at City was £95 for the last three seasons.
Adult tickets could be had for around £350.
How much do holidays, the latest clothes, computers, video games, nights in the pub etc cost over a year?
Everything is relative. If people want it, they will make sacrifices by not spending so much on other things.
I'd be very surprised if our ST prices don't eventually end up maybe 10-20% less than the rags - I do think they will always be cheaper.

Their match day revenue across the season is about £110m compared to ours of around £20m (maybe we can squeeze out another £5m from full houses and better cup runs), they get 5 x our revenue from a stadium less than double the size......... (got the figures from Swiss Ramble). Even the dippers with a slightly smaller stadium get in more than double our money with £43m.

At some point we should be getting at least Liverpools income from our current ground and Liverpool is not a more affluent area than Manchester. I don't see how we can indefinitely keep giving up over £80m/season the rags and stay competitive over the long term. The only other option would be for us to coin it in with the other proposed developments and effectively use them to subsidise the ticket prices.......


Are you sure thats right about match day income only being £20 million?
We have at least 22 home game sell outs per season now and that must equate to at least £22 million,without what people spend whilst at and in the ground.We also have two domestic cup competitions where some of those games are played at home,even with 30000 gates it still adds significant revenue to your figures.And thats not taking into account the corporate and hospitality revenue.
Well, those are figures from 10-11 so we will be getting more now. Can't see it being more than another £10m at most. Still only 75% of Liverpool's take and they didn't have CL and way behind the rags and Arse matchday revenue.
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

celf said:
does anybody know if the area next to the stadium,where the casino was supposed to be is going to be redeveloped? its a bloody eyesore!!!

It's ready to be developed, the new training ground is the priority at the moment with the bridge linking the two and the new office development earmarked for that corner.
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Two articles. For those of you who are interested. :-)

Not City related as such(first article), but it shows how Abramovich and Chelsea are thinking.

Architects Journal.

Revealed: images of Chelsea FC's Battersea bid


Chelsea FC has revealed images of how it intended to convert Battersea Power Station into its new home


Working with architect KPF and developer Almacantar, the club lost out in the battle to win an exclusivity agreement to buy the 15-hectare riverside site to a Malaysian-based team earlier this month (AJ 07.06.2012).

However sources say the club has not yet given up hope on its vision to transform Giles Gilbert Scott’s abandoned landmark into a 60,000-seat stadium and is still in the running if the £400 million deal with prefered bidders SP Setia and Sime Darby collapses.

The never-before-seen KPF design would integrate the stadium with the power station ‘in a sensitive, unique and powerful way, with all significant historical aspects of the power station to be retained’.

The proposals would preserve the four chimneys and wash towers as well as the west turbine hall and control room which would be restored.

Last month the AJ exclusively revealed the first sketches of the KPF plans.

Chelsea FC statement

‘It is important that our fans understand that Chelsea Football Club is not currently in discussions with the sellers of the site. The sellers have selected a Malaysian consortium as their preferred bidders, and we understand negotiations are continuing. We do not know if those negotiations will be successful or not.

‘As per our previous statement, and as these images show, we believe the prospect of developing a new stadium on the site could be very attractive for the club, and would have the potential to become one of the most iconic stadiums in the world, offering many benefits for Wandsworth, for London, and, of course, for Chelsea fans. We firmly believe our proposals could address the unique challenges presented by the site.’

Renders not showing. Hmmm. Here. <a class="postlink" href="http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/daily-news/revealed-images-of-chelsea-fcs-battersea-bid/8632094.article?blocktitle=Daily-News&contentID=3169" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news ... entID=3169</a>

Also. Found this article about the stadium roof.

Architect

Arup Associates

Structural Engineer

Arup Associates and Arup

Steelwork Contractor

Watson Steel Structures Ltd

Main Contractor

Laing O'Rourke Ltd

Client

Manchester City Council

Manchester has a new iconic symbol for the city. It was completed in March 2002 as the centrepiece of the hugely successful XVII Commonwealth Games. The stadium was constructed on a derelict site and will act as a catalyst for the redevelopment of the surrounding area.

The Stadium structure utilises a mixture of structural systems. In-situ and precast concrete were used to construct the stadium bowl and structural steel supported from a cable-net of masts and steel cables to form the roof.

The City of Manchester Stadium is a remarkable structure due to several key features:
•It is one of the most cost effective quality stadia of its size in Europe. Typical examples of multi-function components of the building are: ◦The stadium is circular to provide optimum views for spectators. It sweeps up from low sides on the North and South elevations that allow sun on to the grassed area, to high sides on the East and West giving protection from prevailing winds and low sun angles.
◦Roof Structural Liner Tray - these 150 deep aluminium panels act structurally to support the roof sheeting as well as creating a hidden zone for acoustic insulation, wiring and roof bracing. The trays also form a visually clean ceiling to the roof that would not usually be economically viable on aesthetic grounds alone.Concrete Ramp Towers - the eight concrete towers to the east and west of the stadium serve three distinct purposes. Firstly they support the spiral ramps that provide access and egress for spectators. Secondly the spaces within the concrete ramp drums are utilised for plant as well as toilet facilities. Finally they provide an elevated support for eight of the 12 roof masts.

•The stadium is unique in Europe as a building of two distinct lives - initially a 41,000 seat athletics stadium and then to be permanently converted into a 48,000 seat football stadium (completion Summer 2003). The construction flexibility is central to the success of this transformation. The primary roof support structure that consists of a pre-stressed mast and cable-net system is independent of the roof-plane rafters and purlins. This allowed the roof to be added below the cable-net in whatever sequence was required.

The innovative mast and cable-net roof primary structure utilises a 'grounded tension ring' in order to create a prestress field against uplift wind loads. The structure comprises 12 cigar-shaped tubular steel masts up to 65 metres high. Eight of the masts sit on cone shaped tubular supports on top of the spiral concrete ramps at the East and West sides. The masts support 76 spiral strand forestay cables in fan-shaped groups of five or seven cables per mast. Each forestay supports an individual roof rafter. Just above the roof surface all forestay ends are connected by a system of four spiral strand cables that form the grounded tension ring (also referred to as the 'catenary'). Prestress to the catenary and cable-net is provided by the four corner-ties anchored to the ground. The top of each column is tied back to the ground by pairs of backstays comprising groups of 'Macalloy' high tensile steel rods.

The erection scheme provided the greatest challenge for the team. The rafters, masts and pyramid supports were fabricated in transportable sections and then welded at site into complete elements. After carrying out risk assessments on the erection scheme it was decided to construct the rafters on temporary props generally supported on the concrete terrace. This allowed the construction of other elements to proceed at the same time without the constraints of sequence. If the masts and cables had been erected first, to provide support for rafters, any delay to the critical cable assembly would have a corresponding delay to the remaining work.

The catenary cables were assembled at ground level in the bowl of the stadium, on jigs which supported the nodes in the correct geometry. After clamping the four cables at the node points, the complete assembly was lifted on top of the rafters and supported on temporary works.

In conjunction with the above, masts were erected and made stable by the permanent backstays and temporary forestays connected to the temporary props supporting the rafters. At this stage the masts were positioned one degree forward of their pre-set geometry to facilitate fixing the permanent forestay cables.

The corner ties to the completed catenary were erected, connected to the catenary, and a pre-tension of 200KN applied. The permanent forestays from mast to catenary were fixed using a predetermined sequence that ensured the catenary displacements were within acceptable limits.

The final tensioning of the cable net could now commence - the basic sequence being to increase the corner tie tension to 1000KN simultaneously at each corner using temporary hollow jacks on the ends of the cables. This was followed by releasing the temporary forestays whilst at the same time adjusting the permanent backstays to maintain a minimum tension. When the majority of the load had transferred from the temporary forestays into the catenary the forestays were then released. Once all the forestays were released final tensioning commenced. Firstly all the backstays to the masts were jacked to length, all four pairs simultaneously, and the pins inserted into the anchorages. After all the backstays were complete the final tensioning of the corner ties commenced simultaneously increasing the tension to 2550kn. The final activity was to jack up the rafters from their supports install its linking member to the catenary node and remove the props.

In summary the structural solution for the stadium has produced a design that not only adds significantly to the overall stadium architecture but is one of the best value-for-money stadia of its size in Europe. It is a demonstration of overall building design, which can be attributed as much to the engineering and construction as to the architect.

Judges' Comments:

The memorable "Mexican wave" roof is suspended from beautifully engineered tension masts, which themselves grow out of the distinctive circular ramp access routes. A catenary ring cable holds the roof down and this is incrementally readjusted to accommodate the fourth side of the stadium now being constructed.

Overall the impression is of an integrated and ingenious building where the design and construction of the steel work is central to the entire project.
<a class="postlink" href="https://www.steelconstruction.org/resources/design-awards/2003/award/city-of-manchester-stadium-manchester.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.steelconstruction.org/resou ... ester.html</a>
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Sounds as though that will be a bugger of a job to take the roof off then.
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

A decent business should maximise its potential for sales, especially when faced with govening body limits on spending in excess of income. Our ground is nowhere near big enough. Something's got to give.

Just a thought: Has anyone actually asked Khaldoon outright what are our plans for the stadium in the short - medium - long term?
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

JOGAMIGMOG said:
A decent business should maximise its potential for sales, especially when faced with govening body limits on spending in excess of income. Our ground is nowhere near big enough. Something's got to give.

Just a thought: Has anyone actually asked Khaldoon outright what are our plans for the stadium in the short - medium - long term?

Nearly....but 'they' chickened out; instead 'they' asked what nom de plume Khaldoon [has learned] to give to a certain shape (not necessarily type?) of bread.

There will be a roof. If you can afford a roof and want the party to continue during the British summer, you will stump up for a roof...midsummer UK dictates that.

Bergerac 3D world.
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

I've been keeping up with this thread for a long time and I don't think this question has been asked (sorry if it has been).

What is the possibility of adding some more rows of seats to the front of the second tier?

Obviously I know there's a few things that would need to be considered before this, such as is it actually possible to build it safely. Secondly, will people sat at the very back of the first tier still have a clear view. (I've never sat there so wouldn't know but I know that it's a problem at the Millennium Stadium).

If this was possible I'm sure it would add at least a couple of thousand seats.
 
Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Gary James said:
cibaman said:
How can it be economically viable to build a brand new stadium just to obtain an extra 12,000 seats? Or an extra 32,000 seats for which there is no proven demand?

Arsenal and others, including NUFC & MUFC, have seen what ambition can do. LFC, Spurs and even Southampton (with their longer term plans) have aims to increase capacity by significant amounts.

When City moved from Maine Road a lot of fans were disappointed that the new stadium capacity was less than 50k and many believed that 60k should have been built then.

In 1923 City moved to a 80k plus stadium and showed ambition that made City a giant. They could have sat back and said "Well we average around 30k now and have a stadium that at a push holds 40k but perhaps this is our limit? We only averaged 31k when we came second the other year, so where's the demand?" Within a year the Club broke Manchester's attendance record and the following decade set national records for support (in the depression).

Prior to capacity restrictions and increases elsewhere in the last decade or so, City's average support has been bigger over the last 4 decades (and more) than Arsenal, Newcastle, and majority of other clubs.

If a new stadium was designed in the right way it would also bring significantly new opportunities to raise income via hospitality, conferences and so on. So much has changed for City in the last decade that I believe a significant increase in capacity is the right way forward to ensure we can all get to games - how many of us will be priced out if the stadium capacity means sell outs every week, year after year?

How City achieve a greater capacity is clearly something the club is looking at/has looked at. It's the right way forward, but whether that's a new stadium (unlikely) or increase in Etihad who knows? I'm sure they'll work out the best solution.

Build it, they will come.

Capacity crowds are a recent phenomenum. It was always the way that grounds only filled for big matches and you needed excess capacity to mop up demand. They were days of pay at the gate and random standing with your mates. You could walk round many smaller grounds and change ends at half time. Things have changed and we have moved on. Clubs need to stay true to their roots but recognise it is a global game.

Manchester City is now averaging their highest average attendances and playing some of the best football seen anywhere. I believe if we had 60k capacity next year we would fill it. 80k would be building for the future.

Where are these extra fans? The rags have shown the matchday demand from tourists and we can be expected to gain fans at their expense. The growth in "local support" is likely to come from areas within easy travelling distance and not just Manchester. Many will be new, young fans.

The real potential lies to the east of the Etihad. There is now no Premier League football between York and Nottingham and all are an hour or so away from the ground by car, bus or train. Bradford, Huddersfield, Sheffield and Leeds are a short commute. Blackburn, Bolton and Burnley no longer enjoy top level football and to the south there is only Stoke. City is the nearest, easiest to get to.

The rags have Everton, Liverpool and Wigan to their west and us to the east. The Etihad has better facilities, is cheaper and you get to see better football from the Champions. With sustained success we stand every chance of becoming the Premier League club of choice within a 50 mile arc. When coupled with proposed "world class atractions" an 80k stadium makes sense. There is no substitute for being there.

We have a unique opportunity. Build it and they will come.
 
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