Etihad Campus, Stadium Development and Collar Site

[danebanksheik]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Let's be honest, even if it cost Mansour £100mill to increase the capacity of COMS to 60,000, would he miss the money? Of course he wouldn't.

Makes me chuckle how we all try to spend his money!

 

[hgblue]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Let's be honest, even if it cost Mansour £100mill to increase the capacity of COMS to 60,000, would he miss the money? Of course he wouldn't.

Makes me chuckle how we all try to spend his money!

If we're saying that money is no object, then surely an iconic, state of the art, statement of intent, 80,000 capacity stadium would be the preferred option?

 

[blueinsa]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Not a cat in heels chance of our owner pumping in the billions, making us one of the best football clubs in the world and having us playing in a stadium which is not on a par with the worlds best.

Plans will be in place and they will fire the starting gun when the time is right.

 

[tilbz]

Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Not a cat in heels chance of our owner pumping in the billions, making us one of the best football clubs in the world and having us playing in a stadium which is not on a par with the worlds best.

Plans will be in place and they will fire the starting gun when the time is right.

I like this post a lot

 

[jrb]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Let's be honest, even if it cost Mansour £100mill to increase the capacity of COMS to 60,000, would he miss the money? Of course he wouldn't.

Makes me chuckle how we all try to spend his money!

If we're saying that money is no object, then surely an iconic, state of the art, statement of intent, 80,000 capacity stadium would be the preferred option?

Not really.

What City and MCC want is a 24/7-365 day a year complex. Much better to increase the capacity of the stadium to 60.000(which is enough in my opinion), and to build a leisure destination which includes Hotels, an arena, a conference centre/venue, restaurants, bars, etc. Something cultural wouldn't go a miss either. Let's be silly. A Guggenheim Museum or a venue for the Royal Opera House North that was shelved a while back.<br /><br />-- Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:56 pm --<br /><br />

What could you do in town that that sort of hotel complex could not provide especially if for overnight and couple of day stop overs?

No doubt would have a casino, restaurant may have several. Tram link to town only taking five minutes but situated in a quiet area no hassle.

The players could stay there overnight before a home match. At the moment they use the Lowry in town.

Home fans and away fans, especially those coming for a CL match could use it instead of staying in hotels in the city centre. Not to mention concert goers, etc.Then there's conferences, etc. With town only 10 minutes away by Metrolink, there's no reason not to stay.

Imagine the revenue a 150-200 bed hotel could generate, not only on match days, but throughout the year. Manchester city centre hotels are currently running between 75-80% full each week.

The players will be staying in the Campus training ground hotel 30+ rooms for first and academy players will be included

I. I forgot about that.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Your wrong on the roof Kramer. Yes it is a mono-structure, but it can be modified.

An overview of the stadium design is covered in this ARUP PDF document:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.getyourkitsout.com/designing%20the%20COMSTAD.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.getyourkitsout.com/designing ... OMSTAD.pdf</a>

The roof is a Cable-Net roof with a tension-ring about a third of the way back from the front around the front of the roof. The tension ring is placed under tension by cables that are anchored at the 4 corners of the stadium and most of the weight of the roof supported from the 12 masts (4 on each side and 2 at each end).

So long as the tension ring remains in place it is a relatively straight forward process (though not cheap) to raise the height of the roof at the back of the North and South Stands to add 10 to 14 thousand to the existing capacity. Probably by taking the panels off at either end of the ground and to restructure the Cable-Nets to add new tiers at either end of the ground with the back roof supports higher up (initially, the reverse of the process that added the roof after the Commonwealth games).

However, that is about as far as you can get without raising the tension ring (i.e. rainwater has to drain via the back of the stands). I believe the club want the stadium to be bigger than 60,000 in the long term so I would suspect a wholly new roof structure will be built that is independent of the existing Stadium structure to allow future expansion to be made easier.

In addition everybody should note that the club could have sold TWICE the corporate space they have for next season and as this earns the most money (for FFP compliance and future profitability ). So as such I expect any immediate ground changes to take this into account.

I think you are making light of a very difficult task The whole geometry of the cable-net (not nets) will change with the re-configured tension due to the height. Additional spirals would have to be added for access to the new upper tiers, the current spirals support anchor points for the cable-net will this be the case for the new ends? I also would expect the the overall length of the cables would change I have read the document you linked, Ive linked it myself on here, numerous times and dont find any reference to increasing the size of the stadium in fact all comments I have heard have said that no provision was made for increase in capacity Obviously anything is possible the problem I see is not cost but a building site and with H&S regulations in the UK I can envisage the capacity being considerably reduced for a extended period

I didn't say it was cheap though it is a straight forward task -Not a particularly difficult one at all. The issue is, as you say the logistics and timing of the roof replacement Removal would take at least a full summer and replacement would take a longer time period. For these reasons I fully expect the existing roof to be dismantled and a new one constructed - even then the logistics are quite frightening:
[1] Summer 1:
- Remove Stand [A] Roof.
[2] Season 1:
- Build stand [A] roof support towers and stand A extension.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand [a] next to ground.
[3] Summer 2:
- Assemble new stand [A] roof over stadium.
- Begin completion of stand [A] extension.
- Remove Stand Roof.
[4] Season 2:
- Complete and open stand [A] extension.
- Build stand roof support towers and stand extension.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand next to ground.
[5] Summer 3:
- Assemble new stand roof over stadium.
- Begin completion of stand extension.
- Remove Side Stand [C] roof
[6] Season 3:
- Complete and open stand extension.
- Build Stand [C] roof support towers.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand [C] next to ground.
[7] Summer 4:
- Assemble new stand [C] roof over stadium.
- Remove Side Stand [D] roof
[8] Season 4:
- Build Stand [D] roof support towers.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand [D] next to ground.
[7] Summer 5:
- Assemble new stand [D] roof over stadium.

Then at some point you would probably want to remove redundant masts form the Spirals.

As can be seen the ground will be a building site for around 4.5 years due to the logistics of the thing. The building of a new Stadium from the ground up is appealing though probably more expensive. Of course there is the alternative of becoming tenants elsewhere for a season or two (though I doubt that would be popular).

 

[not my fault!]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Not a cat in heels chance of our owner pumping in the billions, making us one of the best football clubs in the world and having us playing in a stadium which is not on a par with the worlds best.

Plans will be in place and they will fire the starting gun when the time is right.

I like this post a lot

& that is exactly the case. With regards to City Square & building a hotel in its place (as suggested by jrb) remember it was said that City Sq is only temporary & that a more perminant solid structure with additional shops will be built down the line, so no reason it couldn't/wouldn't be moved!

 

[Rammyblues]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

& that is exactly the case. With regards to City Square & building a hotel in its place (as suggested by jrb) remember it was said that City Sq is only temporary & that a more perminant solid structure with additional shops will be built down the line, so no reason it couldn't/wouldn't be moved!

Didn't someone mention it was going to the Campus, the area in front of the new stadium or have I got that mixed up?

 

[jrb]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

I stand corrected.

Isn't there a quote floating about the interweb that a tower around the 30 storey mark can be built close to the stadium, even though the area is full of old mine shafts?

I remember taking pictures of Buckingham filling the remediated Collar site with concrete pillars/supports under the ground.

 

[Gordyola]

Re: Etihad Campus & potential new stadium

Your wrong on the roof Kramer. Yes it is a mono-structure, but it can be modified.

An overview of the stadium design is covered in this ARUP PDF document:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.getyourkitsout.com/designing%20the%20COMSTAD.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.getyourkitsout.com/designing ... OMSTAD.pdf</a>

The roof is a Cable-Net roof with a tension-ring about a third of the way back from the front around the front of the roof. The tension ring is placed under tension by cables that are anchored at the 4 corners of the stadium and most of the weight of the roof supported from the 12 masts (4 on each side and 2 at each end).

So long as the tension ring remains in place it is a relatively straight forward process (though not cheap) to raise the height of the roof at the back of the North and South Stands to add 10 to 14 thousand to the existing capacity. Probably by taking the panels off at either end of the ground and to restructure the Cable-Nets to add new tiers at either end of the ground with the back roof supports higher up (initially, the reverse of the process that added the roof after the Commonwealth games).

However, that is about as far as you can get without raising the tension ring (i.e. rainwater has to drain via the back of the stands). I believe the club want the stadium to be bigger than 60,000 in the long term so I would suspect a wholly new roof structure will be built that is independent of the existing Stadium structure to allow future expansion to be made easier.

In addition everybody should note that the club could have sold TWICE the corporate space they have for next season and as this earns the most money (for FFP compliance and future profitability ). So as such I expect any immediate ground changes to take this into account.

I think you are making light of a very difficult task The whole geometry of the cable-net (not nets) will change with the re-configured tension due to the height. Additional spirals would have to be added for access to the new upper tiers, the current spirals support anchor points for the cable-net will this be the case for the new ends? I also would expect the the overall length of the cables would change I have read the document you linked, Ive linked it myself on here, numerous times and dont find any reference to increasing the size of the stadium in fact all comments I have heard have said that no provision was made for increase in capacity Obviously anything is possible the problem I see is not cost but a building site and with H&S regulations in the UK I can envisage the capacity being considerably reduced for a extended period

I didn't say it was cheap though it is a straight forward task -Not a particularly difficult one at all. The issue is, as you say the logistics and timing of the roof replacement Removal would take at least a full summer and replacement would take a longer time period. For these reasons I fully expect the existing roof to be dismantled and a new one constructed - even then the logistics are quite frightening:
[1] Summer 1:
- Remove Stand [A] Roof.
[2] Season 1:
- Build stand [A] roof support towers and stand A extension.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand [a] next to ground.
[3] Summer 2:
- Assemble new stand [A] roof over stadium.
- Begin completion of stand [A] extension.
- Remove Stand Roof.
[4] Season 2:
- Complete and open stand [A] extension.
- Build stand roof support towers and stand extension.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand next to ground.
[5] Summer 3:
- Assemble new stand roof over stadium.
- Begin completion of stand extension.
- Remove Side Stand [C] roof
[6] Season 3:
- Complete and open stand extension.
- Build Stand [C] roof support towers.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand [C] next to ground.
[7] Summer 4:
- Assemble new stand [C] roof over stadium.
- Remove Side Stand [D] roof
[8] Season 4:
- Build Stand [D] roof support towers.
- Assemble new roof sections for stand [D] next to ground.
[7] Summer 5:
- Assemble new stand [D] roof over stadium.

Then at some point you would probably want to remove redundant masts form the Spirals.

As can be seen the ground will be a building site for around 4.5 years due to the logistics of the thing. The building of a new Stadium from the ground up is appealing though probably more expensive. Of course there is the alternative of becoming tenants elsewhere for a season or two (though I doubt that would be popular).

So we broadly agree, this has been my argument all along, that the roof design prevents easy extension. I posted much the same as you in the Vegas thread and that a new stadium would be easier I also alluded to becoming temporary tenants elsewhere IMHO an iconic building that includes a stadium, multi purpose hall, mall, entertainment complex etc could forgo the protests that would be associated with the replacement of CoMS