EU Referendum Thread

Some MEPs, The Committee on Women's Rights and Gender Equality, have decided to find strategies which will ensure men do half the housework.

It wants 'awareness campaigns' about it, paid for by the taxpayers of course.

High unemployment, low growth, financial meltdown in Greece, but MEPs at the noddy EU parliament have time to waste on stuff like this.

Let's get out.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ment-chores-ukip_n_7585808.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...asing-strategy-men-HALF-household-chores.html
 
That is naive, there are many reasons to vote yes. If the NO campaign fall into that trap they will lose and lose badly.

I will vote Yes in the hope that we continue along a path to become a single nation in Europe. Makes a lot of sense to me
 
It is all they bang on about. The message is always negative.

It's clearly the only bit you pay attention to. David Cameron is surely delighted with trusty foot-soldiers like you repeating such nonsense.

See UKIP's website, Manifestos, MEP's speeches, tweets, Facebook posts, newspaper articles and dozens upon dozens of books for further information on UKIP's actual position on the EU.

Or just keep pretending otherwise.
 
UKIPs message on the EU is very positive.

It wants us to leave and embrace the big wide world, not stay stuck in the worst performing economic bloc on the planet, with low growth, high unemployment and a failing single currency which is causing Greece some real problems.
 
Still don't understand how UKIP's "negative message" and reason for wanting to leave the EU can negate your own position and reasoning.

It is in itself a "negative" way to use your vote and it seems to be a driving factor in most of the left's thought processes; find out what the other side think and then go the other way as it is better to deny them a victory than it is to win yourself even if the end goal is the same.

For saying the left are supposed to be the most intelligent on the political spectrum, it's an illogical way to take a stance on issues like this and politics in general.

Did you read my reply to your last post? I said it did not change my intention but may do for others who are of the left. The negativity of the right towards an EU most of the left would like to stay in, albeit if it was more democratic may be a crucial factor in what looks to be a fairly close vote',according to the Times poll.

Of course it is the anti EU rights choice to run any campaign as they see fit but my point is if it is only a negative campaign then the hopes of NO winning will be diminished.

There is also the point that some on the left who will be voting out will only do so if certain things remain. Like say Switzerland who are not EU members but have EU free movement, open borders and social protections.

It really is not about the left voting to deny the right a "victory" because now a referendum has been forced upon us it is our duty to take it very seriously and vote according to our beliefs.

Whatever it is an interesting debate and it is also an enjoyable debate so far.
 
Just been broken on Newsnight that there will be NO referendum next May.
Wonder when then?
 
Did you read my reply to your last post? I said it did not change my intention but may do for others who are of the left. The negativity of the right towards an EU most of the left would like to stay in, albeit if it was more democratic may be a crucial factor in what looks to be a fairly close vote',according to the Times poll.

Of course it is the anti EU rights choice to run any campaign as they see fit but my point is if it is only a negative campaign then the hopes of NO winning will be diminished.

There is also the point that some on the left who will be voting out will only do so if certain things remain. Like say Switzerland who are not EU members but have EU free movement, open borders and social protections.

It really is not about the left voting to deny the right a "victory" because now a referendum has been forced upon us it is our duty to take it very seriously and vote according to our beliefs.

Whatever it is an interesting debate and it is also an enjoyable debate so far.

Fair enough on your own stance, but my point is that it shouldn't effect the undecided to the point where they vote based on how others choose to campaign.

I hope people will take it seriously and vote according to their stance on the EU issue itself rather than left/right loyalties and the tribal instinct that unfortunately dominates general elections and other debate on regular politics.

In terms of negative campaigns, I'm still torn on whether to take the view that although there will undoubtedly be a minority of racist/xenophobic undertone from the right on the EU immigration issue, there is a valid point that managing immigration will lead to positive changes in housing/welfare/health etc.

As someone who is still unpositioned on the political spectrum (voted Conservative for mainly local reasons) I find the left/right, labour/tory debate fascinating and frustrating at the same time. I think if we ever reach a point when the tribalism and to some extent hatred doesn't dominate the debate and voting patterns then we may get somewhere as a (one) nation.

I was hoping the EU debate would transcend that but unfortunately i don't think it will be the case
 
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Fair enough on your own stance, but my point is that it shouldn't effect the undecided to the point where they vote based on how others choose to campaign.

I hope people will take it seriously and vote according to their stance on the EU issue itself rather than left/right loyalties and the tribal instinct that unfortunately dominates general elections and other debate on regular politics.

In terms of negative campaigns, I'm still torn on whether to take the view that although there will undoubtedly be a minority of racist/xenophobic undertone from the right on the EU immigration issue, there is a valid point that managing immigration will lead to positive changes in housing/welfare/health etc.

As someone who is still unpositioned on the political spectrum (voted Conservative for mainly local reasons) I find the left/right, labour/tory debate fascinating and frustrating at the same time. I think if we ever reach a point when the tribalism and to some extent hatred doesn't dominate the debate and voting patterns then we may get somewhere as a (one) nation.

I was hoping the EU debate would transcend that but unfortunately i don't think it will be the case
The positive case for the pro-Europe but anti EU vision that many in the no camp have hasn't really been made yet. Many on the no side are passionately pro-European, but just feel that the path the EU has chosen is bad for Britain, and perhaps even more importantly in the context of this referendum, bad for the rest of Europe. Events in Greece at the moment back this point of view up nicely as two totally different countries like Germany and Greece attempt to square the circle and are confronted with the obvious problems that were always going to follow from sharing the same currency. A Commonwealth of nation states creating a free trade area and coming together where it makes sense to do that or a political and monetary union where the nation state is subservient to the faceless bureaucrat? I think I know where the majority of British people are and if the no camp can get this message across then we may be heading for a shock result in this referendum. Vive la difference.
 
Why hasn't Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch, the US Department of Justice, and the FBI issue warrants and serve charges to the officials / commissioners of the EU ?
Fifa's alleged 100M is petty cash when compared to 100BN.
Cecilia Malmstroem, the European home affairs commissioner, described levels of corruption across the EU as "breath-taking" and criticised governments for failing to tackle the problem. Corruption across the Europe costs £99 billion (€120bn) a year, the European Commission has estimated in a report that urged Britain to do more to fight foreign bribery.
Officials have also been criticised for dropping a section of the report that covered corruption in EU institutions and funds following annual criticism by the European Court of Auditors on the spending of the Brussels budget.
"Its refusal to carry out a study into corruption in its own institutions shows that it is very touchy about its public image," said Paul Nuttall MEP, the deputy leader of Ukip.
"Instead of analysing, facing up to, and changing the culture of corruption within its own walls, the commission would rather cover up and keep quiet about it."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-corruption-costing-economy-100bn-a-year.html
 
An interesting leftist perspective on No to the EU




"The EU functions as a cheerleader for unconfined monopoly capitalism. It cannot be reformed, it can only be opposed, writes Brian denny

THE European Union is currently negotiating a secret trade deal which would institutionalise irreversible mass privatisation of public services.

This treaty, currently known as TTIP with the US and CETA with Canada, would create secret courts that would allow transnational corporations to sue nation states for huge sums of money for any breaches of this charter for finance capital.

This Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) procedure is already being used in other trade agreements to suck billions from nation states and into the coffers of the world’s largest companies.

Regardless of the names of these trade deals, the ISDS model is clearly a strategy for world domination by the world’s richest people and, not surprisingly, there has been a public outcry as these secretive plans become known more widely.

Yet the European Commission has just rejected a two-million signature European Citizens’ Initiative against these trade deals — despite the fact such petitions are written into the Lisbon Treaty.

That is because EU institutions and treaties broadly concur with this model of corporate domination. Directive after directive has poured out demanding the same thing of different industries and sectors: mass privatisation and so-called “free-market competition,” which is actually institutionalised monopoly capitalism.

The EU has also been openly financing a junta that has violently grabbed power in Ukraine and which is led by fascists and revanchist groups promoting a cult around former Nazi collaborators.

This cult focuses particularly on Stepan Bandera, leader of the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists, which joined forces with the nazis during the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941.

Numerous monuments to Bandera have been erected, particularly in western Ukraine, including a statue in the city of Lviv, site of one of the largest anti-Jewish pogroms in WWII.

The Kiev regime even saw fit to pass a law under which wartime nazi collaborators, who carried out these mass murders, are officially recognised as “fighters for the freedom of Ukraine.”

At the same time it banned communist symbols and socialist thought across Ukraine.

This repressive, anti-democratic far-right regime is enthusiastically backed by its EU allies. Meanwhile Dmitry Yarosh, the neonazi leader of the Right Sector fascist party, has just been appointed as advisor to the chief of general staff of the armed forces.

This is how the EU projects its power externally on the international scene.

German Christian Democratic Union MEP Elmar Brok spoke frankly at a conference in Brussels about why Berlin and its EU have such a strong interest in Ukraine.

Ukraine is “a country with great economic possibilities,” with “a well-educated population” and with “good agricultural prerequisites.”

Internally, EU policies have decimated entire industries. The Common Agricultural Policy (Cap) has laid waste to entire countries. Before Lithuania joined the EU it was largely agriculturally self-sufficient. Today millions of acres of farming land lie unused as the Cap is designed to control prices within the EU and to protect farmers in Europe’s most powerful member states, including France.

As a result, Lithuanians young and old have been forced leave their country in order to join the huge reserve army of labour created by the EU’s “free movement” rules which lift all control on the movement of capital, goods, services and labour, all for the benefit of the richest people in Europe.

The Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) is an insane recipe for overfishing and waste which has destroyed many fishing grounds and is destroying many more around Africa, leading to many more to flee that region.

The eurozone is a world economic black spot which is destroying entire economies. Greece and many states would be better off outside this neoliberal torture chamber.

The relentless rise in unemployment, particularly youth unemployment, in the majority of the eurozone member countries in recent years is one of the most dramatic consequences of the capitalist crisis in the area. Over a quarter of young Europeans have no job.

Ultimately, the EU is a Tory project. The Tories took us in, campaigned to stay in, virtually wrote the 1986 Single European Act and supported the Maastricht Treaty and every right-wing, neoliberal treaty ever since.

Europhile Tory leader David Cameron claims that he wants to renegotiate Britain’s EU membership before holding an in-out referendum, probably next year.

But after a private meeting with the prime minister, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said Cameron wants to use the upcoming EU referendum to “dock” Britain permanently to Brussels.

Cameron has no intention of fundamentally changing Britain’s relationship with the EU, mainly because finance capital does not want it altered.

There is no sign that he will end the supremacy of EU law over British law or even that he will keep Britain out of the eurozone in the long run.

Cameron is already building an alliance for his strategy which stretches from the CBI to the more unhinged parts of British Trotskyism.

But, ultimately, by campaigning for a Yes vote you are effectively endorsing all of the above crimes inflicted on Europe and further afield by fundamentally anti-democratic EU institutions.

Some on the left will argue that regardless of the corporate nature of the EU, another Europe is possible. It is not, and that is rather like arguing another Nato is possible.

The EU is fundamentally unreformable. It was designed to be that way. To those who say we can’t survive outside the EU, we should be pointing out that this is a colonial mentality and, in the end, what on Earth is wrong with self-rule?

Vote to get out and into the world.

Brian Denny is a No2EU spokesman"


https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-7e3d-EU-referendum-Vote-to-get-out#.VYpDd0bfq-c
 

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