Apparently when it comes to referenda of this type, Dont Knows vote at least 2-1 for the status quo. Hence the inacuracies in the polls, which excluded Dont Knows, on the Scottish referendum.
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EU Referendum Thread
- Thread starter GresleyChris
- Start date
Apparently when it comes to referenda of this type, Dont Knows vote at least 2-1 for the status quo. Hence the inacuracies in the polls, which excluded Dont Knows, on the Scottish referendum.
Rascal
El Presidente
Apparently when it comes to referenda of this type, Dont Knows vote at least 2-1 for the status quo. Hence the inacuracies in the polls, which excluded Dont Knows, on the Scottish referendum.
I was not aware of that. Cheers pal.
Looks like the NO campaign has a real struggle on its hands then.
I was not aware of that. Cheers pal.
Looks like the NO campaign has a real struggle on its hands then.
Canadian pollsters have done a lot of reserach on the subject, after getting the Quebec referenda wrong. They now adjust their headline results on Quebec independence by allocating Dont Knows 2/3 to the "No" campaign 1/3 to the "Yes" campaign.
If UK pollsters had used the Canadian convention during the Scottish referendum we might never have had "The Vow"
Chancy Termites
Well-Known Member
The no campaign needs to be positive and paint the picture of what life will be like after we have left. A renewed fishing industry, subsidies for British farmers from British taxation but only if that's what British people choose, our own trade deals with the Commonwealth and the rest of the world, our choice of whether or not to join TTIP and so on - we retake our seat at the WTO and control our own agreements. In an independent UK we will be able to vote for the people who make our laws, and vote for someone else if we don't like what they do.
However, it's also important to remind people of the difference between the Common Market of 1975 and the EU today - it's changed out of all recognition but in a perfectly predictable way. A yes vote means only one thing and that's a continuation of the journey to a single country, and we know that to be the case. There is only one reason to vote yes and it is to join that single country when it finally comes into being.
However, it's also important to remind people of the difference between the Common Market of 1975 and the EU today - it's changed out of all recognition but in a perfectly predictable way. A yes vote means only one thing and that's a continuation of the journey to a single country, and we know that to be the case. There is only one reason to vote yes and it is to join that single country when it finally comes into being.
Rascal
El Presidente
There is only one reason to vote yes and it is to join that single country when it finally comes into being.
That is naive, there are many reasons to vote yes. If the NO campaign fall into that trap they will lose and lose badly.
blueonblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 31 Jan 2009
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- 2,522
The nearest there has been to what the EU wants to become is the old USSR ( With the Germans seeing themselves as the mother land ?), the only difference is the use of Euro`s instead of tanks to conquer countries by bribing the politicians to lead their people into captivity.
Dont be fooled by the veneer of it being about trade, the stated aim is to control every facet of your lives, from the laws you have to obey to the euro police force and courts that will enforce them, the taxes and controls set by faceless unelected eurocrats.
And when people say enough the Euro army will be brought in to "restore order".
Think this is a little far fetched ?, then more fool you, vote no while you still have a voice
Dont be fooled by the veneer of it being about trade, the stated aim is to control every facet of your lives, from the laws you have to obey to the euro police force and courts that will enforce them, the taxes and controls set by faceless unelected eurocrats.
And when people say enough the Euro army will be brought in to "restore order".
Think this is a little far fetched ?, then more fool you, vote no while you still have a voice
Rascal
El Presidente
The nearest there has been to what the EU wants to become is the old USSR ( With the Germans seeing themselves as the mother land ?), the only difference is the use of Euro`s instead of tanks to conquer countries by bribing the politicians to lead their people into captivity.
Dont be fooled by the veneer of it being about trade, the stated aim is to control every facet of your lives, from the laws you have to obey to the euro police force and courts that will enforce them, the taxes and controls set by faceless unelected eurocrats.
And when people say enough the Euro army will be brought in to "restore order".
Think this is a little far fetched ?, then more fool you, vote no while you still have a voice
What utter tosh.
The likes of you with your scaremongering will make people like me vote yes.
What a dictatorial, law-breaking scam the European Union is. At its heart are two institutions: the European Commission – an organisation so steeped in corruption,
nobody will sign off its accounts; and the European Central Bank – run by a Goldman alumnus whose career suggests that removing the ‘lum’ from the Latin sums him up perfectly. It is, in brief, an authoritarian scam. For the average citizen, however, it is a sham….and in their everyday lives, that’s a far bigger failing. No supranational
organisation in world history has quite managed managed to put the sham into shambolic like the EU.
I
The European Union has added nothing to the quality of life in our continent. However, it has added an enormous layer
of pointless, busybody bureaucracy, a single currency that let Germany out of its richly-deserved cage, unimaginable
levels of debt encouraged by Trichet’s ECB, former Soviet States whose ability to undercut the Western members is
frightening, and – above all – moved the supreme source of power away from legislatures to fractional reserve banker
criminality.
nobody will sign off its accounts; and the European Central Bank – run by a Goldman alumnus whose career suggests that removing the ‘lum’ from the Latin sums him up perfectly. It is, in brief, an authoritarian scam. For the average citizen, however, it is a sham….and in their everyday lives, that’s a far bigger failing. No supranational
organisation in world history has quite managed managed to put the sham into shambolic like the EU.
I
The European Union has added nothing to the quality of life in our continent. However, it has added an enormous layer
of pointless, busybody bureaucracy, a single currency that let Germany out of its richly-deserved cage, unimaginable
levels of debt encouraged by Trichet’s ECB, former Soviet States whose ability to undercut the Western members is
frightening, and – above all – moved the supreme source of power away from legislatures to fractional reserve banker
criminality.
GresleyChris
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 31 Aug 2010
- Messages
- 230
What utter tosh.
The likes of you with your scaremongering will make people like me vote yes.
People on the left will ultimately vote to stay in anyway and I find it frustrating how someone as well read as yourself will think to change your mind based on scaremongering.
It's no shock though as it would be against most of what the left stand for to agree with the right on any issue even if the motive and justification is poles apart. The left way of thinking has always been a protest stance, a chance to take the moral high ground against the right.
Your backtracking will now begin and the excuse will be all about how the far right have hijacked the "sensible" NO campaign.
The need to ensure your ultimate stance is anti-right will always be stronger than looking at the issue objectively which is a shame as your point on the lack of democracy within the EU is reason enough for a NO vote but this won't be enough for you if it means helping what will appear to be a victory to the right.
Why does it matter to you how the right choose to focus the campaign and why will it effect your own (legitimate) stance?
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Rascal
El Presidente
People on the left will ultimately vote to stay in anyway and I find it frustrating how someone as well read as yourself will think to change your mind based on scaremongering.
It's no shock though as it would be against most of what the left stand for to agree with the right on any issue even if the motive and justification is poles apart. The left way of thinking has always been a protest stance, a chance to take the moral high ground against the right.
Your backtracking will now begin and the excuse will be all about how the far right have hijacked the "sensible" NO campaign.
The need to ensure your ultimate stance is anti-right will always be stronger than looking at the issue objectively which is a shame as your point on the lack of democracy within the EU is reason enough for a NO vote but this won't be enough for you if it means helping what will appear to be a victory to the right.
Why does it matter to you how the right choose to focus the campaign and why will it effect your own (legitimate) stance?
I will not change my mind unless Cameron gets a satisfactory democratic settlement(which i dont think he is after anyway), but scaremongering affects people. Look at the last General Election for evidence of that. Many on the left are anti EU but for very different reasons to those on the right. i worry and it is a legitimate concern that if the NO campaign becomes negative based on immigration and fear it will fail.
On this thread i have stated that if the EU was properly democratic with an elected President i would have no issue with a European army, European police force etc etc. The other issue i have is that business will decide what the EU needs and that does not serve any leftist agenda of social justice. I think you may be suprised that if big business start to throw there weight around many of the left will vote no. The social charter protections have been the reason why many on the left have been pro EU but if they start to lose tract then there really is no justification for us staying part of the EU.
My stance is always tempered by anti right wing sentiment as i simply abhor right wing thinking and i hope that the Lefts NO campaign does not get lost amongst the morass of far right nutjobbery i am expecting. Unless the electorate see that there are more reasons to leave the EU than to stay then the NO campaign will fail and undemocratic business interests will have a mandate to ride roughshod over us all.
The more i think about it the more i am convinced that the campaign has to be positive and likening the EU to the USSR serves neither the right nor the lefts cause.