EU referendum

[hilts]

Steve Hilton.

Cheers talked a lot of sense

 

[KenTheLandlord]

In summary then you have concluded that any discussions about potential trading arrangements that could be favourable to the UK are fantasy and that the EU is not on a path to closer union - some talent you got their pal! and next weeks lottery numbers are?

Here's a quote from Manuel Barros (He was the previous president of the eu between 2004 and 2014, just in case anyone on the leave side with learning difficulties are struggling with that one) -

Federal Europe will be 'a reality in a few years', says Jose Manuel Barroso
A fully fledged federal Europe may seem like "political science fiction" today but will soon become reality for all European Union countries whether inside or outside the euro, Jose Manuel Barroso has said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-in-a-few-years-says-Jose-Manuel-Barroso.html

So in essence someone who was the president of the eu for 10 years was talking out of his arse - I wonder how and why he formed such an opinion?

Did you notice when that was written?
7 May 2013, so here we are a few years later and........ nothing.

 

[hilts]

And a million Turkish gangsters will be on our doorsteps next week if you believe the outers. Plus free trade deals with no committment to free movement of people lol!!

Even a few Turkish gangsters is less preferable than none, no? Also the second point jas been discussed at Length, no party could sign up for such a deal if we left

 

[The perfect fumble]

I'm confused now do I believe a former president of the EU or a poster off bluemoon? Plus world war 3 doesn't seem like much fun unless it's off season

I'd put your faith in me pal, of course there are federalists in the EU, there are nationalists, Communists, neo-liberals, fascists, fruitcakes and all points in between.

As Barroso said...

Federal Europe will be 'a reality in a few years', says Jose Manuel Barroso
A fully fledged federal Europe may seem like "political science fiction" today but will soon become reality for all European Union countries whether inside or outside the euro, Jose Manuel Barroso has said.

I'd concentrate on the science fiction bit, he's a federalist, that's what they say, that's what they believe that is not reality it is a political position, it keeps federalism on the table as a counter balance to Cameron and his neo-liberal free for all.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Even a few Turkish gangsters is less preferable than none, no? Also the second point jas been discussed at Length, no party could sign up for such a deal if we left

Cheers Hilts. The gangster issue has little to do with the EU though! Albanian gangsters run a chunk of the London underworld and aren't EU members. Likewise Turkish gangsters have a slice of the cake already!

 

[hilts]

Did you notice when that was written?
7 May 2013, so here we are a few years later and........ nothing.

A few years later may mean 3 to you but not necessarily him, plus the eu have been kind of busy with swarms sorry lots of economic sorry asylum seekers and bullying Greece, I am sure they will get round to it

 

[smudgedj]

Did you notice when that was written?
7 May 2013, so here we are a few years later and........ nothing.

Forgotten about the coups in Italy and Greece? Both countries now run by eurocrats.

 

[hilts]

Cheers Hilts. The gangster issue has little to do with the EU though! Albanian gangsters run a chunk of the London underworld and aren't EU members. Likewise Turkish gangsters have a slice of the cake already!

It's a bit like the argument that our politicians have their noses in the trough or our democracy is flawed, justifying one bad thing because a similar one exists has never made much sense to me

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Did the EU invent the requirement for borrowers to pay back loans? I thought this principle went back to the origins of banking?

Ireland seems to be thriving again whilst Greece is suffering. It's not all down to the EU!

Absolutely loans are there to be made and paid back, but the construct of monetary union requires a central bank - ok check we have the ecb - it also requires the issuance of sovereign bonds so that that entity can go into the market and borrow accordingly based on their credit rating i.e a so called Eurobond which is underwritten by the sovereign state; in the UK we have gilts but in the eu they all still have their own bonds Italy has BTPs, Germany bunds etc - this is what has caused all the turmoil in the markets and led to subsequent bailouts for these individual countries as the market came for the weaker states bonds pushing the price of borrowing to unsustainable levels which led to the requirement for bailouts -

Germany have always resisted the introduction of the Eurobond because ultimately they did not want to underwrite the weaker countries debt borrowing requirements as they would have the most to loose in any defaults - fine you may say but that goes back to the principal of paying back loans - these countries have internally devalued so much that they are meeting primary targets imposed by the eu but as soon as they add in the interest owed on their debt they are buggered again so loans can't be paid off. If they had their own currency they could inflate their way out of debt. This is why ever closer union is a must and not an option.

The jury is still out on Ireland from the Irish clients I have and it's not just Greece, you have 50% youth unemployment here and in Spain, Italy and not even sure what's happened to Cyprus now.

 

[SWP's back]

Did you notice when that was written?
7 May 2013, so here we are a few years later and........ nothing.

When was Mein Kampf written?

 

[KenTheLandlord]

A few years later may mean 3 to you but not necessarily him, plus the eu have been kind of busy with swarms sorry lots of economic sorry asylum seekers and bullying Greece, I am sure they will get round to it

So that's a no then.

Forgotten about the coups in Italy and Greece? Both countries now run by eurocrats.

Well thats that, clearly a Federal state now, is the whole of the EU

 

[The perfect fumble]

When was Mein Kampf written?

Why do you post questions where you either know the answer or it's just a quick Google search away?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

It's a bit like the argument that our politicians have their noses in the trough or our democracy is flawed, justifying one bad thing because a similar one exists has never made much sense to me

My point is that the criminals come here regardless of whether they are from the EU or not. Contrast this with the hundreds of thousands of Poles that to the best of my knowledge don't create a significant crime problem. They seem to have added value to our Country.

The wider point is that both owners and outers have focussed on scare tactics - but it only the Brexiters pretend more that they are running a positive campaign!

 

[AlgarveBlu]

LOL...So what? In politics people take positions that are unrealistic in order to pull the debate towards them, Farage, Thatcher in her day, even Corbyn, have taken up positional politics, they do this as a counter weight against the other end of the political spectrum in order to re-position the centre ground towards their view.

On that basis we can assume that what everyone says is just a game of smoke and mirrors so the same would equally apply to the people and organisations you get your theories from which is fine - as I said from the outset we are all in the fog on this one whichever way it goes including remaining with the status quo

 

[smudgedj]

Well thats that, clearly a Federal state now, is the whole of the EU

Two countries in three years. Good going that.

 

[hilts]

I'd put your faith in me pal, of course there are federalists in the EU, there are nationalists, Communists, neo-liberals, fascists, fruitcakes and all points in between.

As Barroso said...

Federal Europe will be 'a reality in a few years', says Jose Manuel Barroso
A fully fledged federal Europe may seem like "political science fiction" today but will soon become reality for all European Union countries whether inside or outside the euro, Jose Manuel Barroso has said.

I'd concentrate on the science fiction bit, he's a federalist, that's what they say, that's what they believe that is not reality it is a political position, it keeps federalism on the table as a counter balance to Cameron and his neo-liberal free for all.

I don't see how a club can work unless all its members want similar things, the problem with the project is the people have not had a say on its future role, I do believe it will collapse and that outcome will not be good, the only argument to stsy that has any merit is that the economy will take a short term hit, mainly through uncertainty and that isn't a big enough reason to stay.

No other argument Holds water to me

 

[SWP's back]

Why do you post questions where you either know the answer or it's just a quick Google search away?

You know the answer to that question which is somewhat ironic.

Not every dream, wish or idea happens overnight does it.

Far more than three years passed before the writer received the power he so craved.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I don't see how a club can work unless all its members want similar things,

That's not how politics works.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You know the answer to that question which is somewhat ironic.

Not every dream, wish or idea happens overnight does it.

Far more than three years passed before the writer received the power he so craved.

 

[BigJoe#1]

And we will look after the City of London and be happy that we are not in the Euro Zone!

I'm afraid you can't have your cake and eat it (stupid expression I know). The fact that we need to join the entirevEuro project - however that may manifest itself, should be the cornerstone of every inners arguement.... how on earth could it not be?