EU referendum

[Tim of the Oak]

I disagree. I think control is the key word. We might want to bring in exactly the same number of immigrants as we do now, but control would allow us to bring in required, skilled workers rather than unskilled workers who are unlikely to make net contributions to the economy.

If people are here without permission then we will have the right to return them to where they arrived from. It also allows us to vote in a party depending on the immigration policies they are outlining in their manifestos. Currently there is absolutely no way to plan as we could have 10k people arrive from the EU or we could have 100k.

You are right to point out that the rules on immigration for people from outnside the EU aren't working great. I know from my own work experience that many international doctors come here, sign up to employment agencies and rip off the NHS. Like wise there are many doctors from around the world who provide amazing patient care but we should have a framework of rules that works across the board.

I am not too sure about your second point as the EU doesn't govern our policy on refugees. Where people are economic migrants rather than refugees then many people won't come Here if there isn't work for them (and the minority of pisstakers who come for benefits will find the new rules less appealing). By the way most of the piss takers I come across tend to be white and British but maybe that is just my experience.

i am no do gooder either btw!

 

[bluethrunthru]

I think that depends on how our relationship with the EU continues. If we remain at the status quo then absolutely - it's the will of the people that we're part of the club. If we sit on a trajectory that pushes us ever closer to political union, or introduces a truly unacceptable TTIP policy, or starts to spread its branches into the Middle East, then I will begin to consider the validity of the referendum result.

I see what you are saying but errrr no........ the point is we have the vote and thats it - if we vote to stay in we are in and we continue to exist like we have done - think Maastricht and so on - what ever changes are made are agreed by our elected politicians on our behalf. If people don't like what they agree to then vote them out at the UK elections but if we vote to stay in then thats it people who lose have to accept they lost thats it - done. Alternatively if we vote to come out would they accept immediately the result is announced in "in" faction begin a capaign for another vote to get us to rejoin?

It could go on forever - what ever the result the "losers" have to shut the fuck up otherwise its a waste of time

 

[Helmet Cole]

Been keeping an eye on this poll/thread, and interestingly the % either way seem pretty consistent no matter what is happening in the news. Assuming this poll is fairly representative of public feeling and blues are not a bunch of oddballs it looks like a brexit may well be on the cards. I suppose this is why we are being subjected to scare stories in the media and now from the g20 - as if its anything to do with those cunts. I just hope which ever way it goes we get to make the decision based on facts rather than fear and hype.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Yep, all those people who passionately believe that Britain is better off outside the EU will all shut up and realise what a wonderful institution it is. Just like the Scots have.

wasn't asking and don't care about the Scots I just want whoever "loses" this vote to give it a fucking rest otherwise its a colossal waste of time.

 

[hgblue]

I see what you are saying but errrr no........ the point is we have the vote and thats it - if we vote to stay in we are in and we continue to exist like we have done - think Maastricht and so on - what ever changes are made are agreed by our elected politicians on our behalf. If people don't like what they agree to then vote them out at the UK elections but if we vote to stay in then thats it people who lose have to accept they lost thats it - done. Alternatively if we vote to come out would they accept immediately the result is announced in "in" faction begin a capaign for another vote to get us to rejoin?

It could go on forever - what ever the result the "losers" have to shut the fuck up otherwise its a waste of time

Do you remember the Scottish independence referendum? Have the SNP gone away? You fail to recognise that people don't change their deeply held convictions because they lose a vote, and my guess is that us outers are going to be doing a fair amount of 'I told you so' if Britain votes to stay in.

 

[CityStu]

You are right to point out that the rules on immigration for people from outnside the EU aren't working great. I know from my own work experience that many international doctors come here, sign up to employment agencies and rip off the NHS. Like wise there are many doctors from around the world who provide amazing patient care but we should have a framework of rules that works across the board.

I am not too sure about your second point as the EU doesn't govern our policy on refugees. Where people are economic migrants rather than refugees then many people won't come Here if there isn't work for them (and the minority of pisstakers who come for benefits will find the new rules less appealing). By the way most of the piss takers I come across tend to be white and British but maybe that is just my experience.

i am no do gooder either btw!

I think they would come here if there wasn't work though. By the end of this parliament our minimum wage will be £7.20 per hour which works out at just under €1,500 a month at full time. You would assume that cost of living would rise with that and thus the amount of benefits paid would also increase. Amongst current EU countries, that's a better wage than the average wage in Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Slovakia, Poland, Croatia, Czech Republic, Estonia, Portugal, Malta, Greece and Slovenia. In short, they could work an average amount in their home country or sit in their pants in the UK and get 'paid' the same. They may well take a few years of hardship (sharing a room and having very low living costs) to reap those rewards.

I do agree that most benefit bums are UK citizens, but I don't see why we should keep the possibility open for EU residents to make the most of our very generous welfare system.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Been keeping an eye on this poll/thread, and interestingly the % either way seem pretty consistent no matter what is happening in the news. Assuming this poll is fairly representative of public feeling and blues are not a bunch of oddballs it looks like a brexit may well be on the cards. I suppose this is why we are being subjected to scare stories in the media and now from the g20 - as if its anything to do with those cunts. I just hope which ever way it goes we get to make the decision based on facts rather than fear and hype.

why do you say that the views of G20 finance ministers are scare stories? If we cannot take the views of the worlds senior governmental finance ministers into account in a debate on a possible Brexit because they are "scaremongering" then who's do we take into account? Those of the Mail and Telegraph when they warn of us being overrun by immigrants taking our jobs and bankrupting our NHS?

The pound has tanked recently underfears of the effect of a Brexit - is that scaremongering too? World markets are in the pay of pro EU supporters too? I'll take my advices off people I think will know what they are looking at TBH

 

[bluethrunthru]

Do you remember the Scottish independence referendum? Have the SNP gone away? You fail to recognise that people don't change their deeply held convictions because they lose a vote, and my guess is that us outers are going to be doing a fair amount of 'I told you so' if Britain votes to stay in.

So we may as well not bother then? That or us "inners" can start a UK In Europe Party the day after we "lose" so we can say "we told you so " too? This is the problem with Call Me Dave's panic stricken promise to do this to fend off UKIP a couple of years ago - instead of having a proper debate THEN calling a vote he has been bounced into it.

If my side lose then so be it - I am just a soft **** who believes in the democratic process I guess............

 

[CityStu]

I see what you are saying but errrr no........ the point is we have the vote and thats it - if we vote to stay in we are in and we continue to exist like we have done - think Maastricht and so on - what ever changes are made are agreed by our elected politicians on our behalf. If people don't like what they agree to then vote them out at the UK elections but if we vote to stay in then thats it people who lose have to accept they lost thats it - done. Alternatively if we vote to come out would they accept immediately the result is announced in "in" faction begin a capaign for another vote to get us to rejoin?

It could go on forever - what ever the result the "losers" have to shut the fuck up otherwise its a waste of time

So even if it gets to the point that the UK is dissolved as a country and we become a state in a United Europe (a la the USA), you would not support the right of the British people to have a referendum on surrendering that amount of sovereignty?

I would certainly accept a party standing in the GE with a manifesto policy of having a referendum to return us into the EU. I just can't see them being very popular if a majority have just taken us out of the EU.

 

[CityStu]

why do you say that the views of G20 finance ministers are scare stories? If we cannot take the views of the worlds senior governmental finance ministers into account in a debate on a possible Brexit because they are "scaremongering" then who's do we take into account? Those of the Mail and Telegraph when they warn of us being overrun by immigrants taking our jobs and bankrupting our NHS?

The pound has tanked recently underfears of the effect of a Brexit - is that scaremongering too? World markets are in the pay of pro EU supporters too? I'll take my advices off people I think will know what they are looking at TBH

I take the opinion of people who don't have a vested interest in the UK being in the EU. I don't think the finance ministers of France or Italy are keen on losing a cash cow like the UK from the EU and I doubt Germany are going to be happy being the only remaining cash cow either.

Why is the pound dropping a bad thing - it is good for exports. And it's not in fear of Brexit - it's over the uncertainty of whether the UK will remain in the EU or not. I imagine it will rise again immediately after the referendum regardless of the direction of the vote. It also didn't drop as far as the Euro did! Oh, and the FTSE rose with speculation that we might be considering leaving - it's not world markets, it's one currency.