EU referendum

[BigJoe#1]

Perhaps neither? Your points 1 and 2 both take a negative view on the EU with no positive offer.

Maybe the OP has a more positive view on what the EU means to him?

The original view I expressed was based purely on nearly every piece of film I've seen about this vote. Sadly to a huge majority of people immigration is front and centre of the debate and that is why if the Remain campaign addressed it, they would win hands down.

Immigration does come into my personal considerations but it alone is not a deciding or influencing factor. I am more concerned about the economy, the excess money we're handing over to the EU, the massive bureaucracy (waste if money) that is the EU, and the lack of accountability that is the EU. Furthermore, I have concerns about not necessarily immigration, but the lack of control we have at our borders and our inability to deport people or refuse entry to known criminals. Like I said, immigration does add to my concerns but as a stand alone issue its not enough to persuade me to want to leave and if the Remain campaign drew up plans to deal with it and explain how they would deal with it, that alone would not buy my vote - but I do suspect it would buy literally millions of others' votes.

I think this is Camerons single biggest mistake in all his pre-referendum negotiations. He's failed to represent and moreover convey the feelings of the population he represents to his European counterparts.

Hope this clears up my personal view!

 

[mcfc1632]

He never will , it's not had any effect on here and unless you are broadcasting me to the good expats of Qatar I doubt it is going to change anyone. As I said before anyone that weak minded shouldn't be allowed a vote anyway.

You have been guilty in the past young SWP of misrepresenting things not least the fact I work for Goldman Sachs which was news to me .

In the case (I assume you mean here ) which so angered the Brexit mob, you should take that up with the editors of the Australian Financial Review and Financial Times websites they cited Brexit fears driving down the market not me . I hadn't even been aware of the poll that spooked the market till reading about the crash.

Someone said that you and others with your incessant banging on in a manner that is so patronising and condescending have likely pushed undecided voters towards Leave. I think that this is likely right - and is in common with the outcome of Gideon's approach - not a very successful debating outcome. The rub is that it is a referendum and the vote of any one of those pathetic weak-minded people carries the same weight has yours.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

I'm interested to know what 'in' means to you. Is it 1/ a Europe that we constantly try to hinder or 2/ do you want a complete capitulation on everything from joining Schengen and the Euro , in other words complete integration?
If your answer is 1/ then I cannot really see the point of voting in because you don't really want to integrate fully.
If your answer is 2/ Then be prepared for anything the Union tells you to do in future. That might also mean your children being forced into conscription to support a European army. If you think that is far fetched just remember that Lithuania is about to introduce conscripton and another Eastern European state is discussing it. You may think this wonderful peace of which you have enjoyed under the protection of NATO will continue but Trump has put a question mark under that and Junker is prepared to tool up with a European army and give America the cold shoulder. Anything could happen after that. Your kids could be called up to go and fight a war for the benefit of bureacrats in Brussels. And you would have no reason to refuse it as you are happy to be part of it. Think carefully what you are doing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36565036

What a load of crap. My own grandfather, whose brother and uncle died in ww1, recognises that conscription will never happen again. The kids of today wouldn't stand for it. They'd be making videos on YouTube about it!! Tbh i think a form of national service wouldn't be a bad thing, but that's a different discussion. It works in Finland.

Tcib, top fella, but you're wrong mate. Estonia, Brussels, they aren't making laws on the national parks. It's a trade deal. I'm not a fan of bureaucracy for the sake of it, all the kids I've spoken to don't think of themselves as English or British, they call themselves European. And it's them we all should be thinking about. That selfish word rises its head again.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The original view I expressed was based purely on nearly every piece of film I've seen about this vote. Sadly to a huge majority of people immigration is front and centre of the debate and that is why if the Remain campaign addressed it, they would win hands down.

Immigration does come into my personal considerations but it alone is not a deciding or influencing factor. I am more concerned about the economy, the excess money we're handing over to the EU, the massive bureaucracy (waste if money) that is the EU, and the lack of accountability that is the EU. Furthermore, I have concerns about not necessarily immigration, but the lack of control we have at our borders and our inability to deport people or refuse entry to known criminals. Like I said, immigration does add to my concerns but as a stand alone issue its not enough to persuade me to want to leave and if the Remain campaign drew up plans to deal with it and explain how they would deal with it, that alone would not buy my vote - but I do suspect it would buy literally millions of others' votes.

I think this is Camerons single biggest mistake in all his pre-referendum negotiations. He's failed to represent and moreover convey the feelings of the population he represents to his European counterparts.

Hope this clears up my personal view!

So Cameron would be set to win this vote if he had told the leaders of other EU Countries that their people are inferior to ours?

 

[urban genie]

I think this is going round in circles now with a week to go, most on this are already pretty much decided either way and doubt anything is gonna change their mind within a week.
Latest polling averaging out various polls

Remain 43%
leave 49%
Undecided 8%

Also interesting graphic in the FT on the demographics of the 2 sides


Although it is missing some sections of society (north west ans 40-49 age range for example)

 

[BigJoe#1]

So Cameron would be set to win this vote if he had told the leaders of other EU Countries that their people are inferior to ours?

Talk about a mis-quote Tim! How on earth do you come to such a conclusions? I have not said nor even suggested anyone us inferior to anyone else. I thought you were a sound balanced poster, should I reconsider my opinion?

 

[Yaya_Tony]

I think this is going round in circles now with a week to go, most on this are already pretty much decided either way and doubt anything is gonna change their mind within a week.
Latest polling averaging out various polls

Remain 43%
leave 49%
Undecided 8%

Also interesting graphic in the FT on the demographics of the 2 sides

Illustrative.

 

[urban genie]

One question not asked or answered is, if we vote leave is it just the EU the exit side want us out of as we will still be members of the council of europe, the european space agency, and some extent Euratom, or is it the whole hog?

 

[halfcenturyup]

I think this is going round in circles now with a week to go, most on this are already pretty much decided either way and doubt anything is gonna change their mind within a week.
Latest polling averaging out various polls

Remain 43%
leave 49%
Undecided 8%

Also interesting graphic in the FT on the demographics of the 2 sides

It's a damn shame that people 40-49 years old don't get to vote ....

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Talk about a mis-quote Tim! How on earth do you come to such a conclusions? I have not said nor even suggested anyone us inferior to anyone else. I thought you were a sound balanced poster, should I reconsider my opinion?

Lighten up BigJoe! I wasnt accusing you of thinking like that - but what was Cameron supposed to say. The EU would have known where Dave stood since he focussed his negotiations on family and unemployment benefits - as well as opposing political integration

It chimes what you were saying the other week that if you are going to make a go of the EU you have to allies and probably a level Of committment to help to influence the agenda.