Machiavelli
Well-Known Member
In that case just remove the H.
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EU referendum
- Thread starter Ric
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Ghandi's Flip Flops
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From the Guardian BTL comments. Think it pretty much sums up i how and a fair few 'outers' feel about the EU.
'Voters do not want unrestricted immigration, unrestricted corporate power, supranational institutions filled with unelected bureaucrats, overruling elected governments, foreign wars, privatisation, offshoring of jobs, corporate sovereignty via so called "free trade deals", austerity, excessive social liberalism, and excessive finance corporatism, whilst being subject to scaremongering, criticism and smears for daring to question it.
Ex Goldman Sachs spivs descend in private jets now working for some supranational institution or other, and tell citizens in already desperate countries, they must accept mass redundancies, liberalisation of their labour markets, privatisation of all of their state assets to foreign investors, the use of their tax money to fund bombing brown children abroad (despite being skint), and mass immigration, and if they complain they are "communists" or "racists".
The voters backed Labour under Blair and got foreign wars and more corporatism. They got the same from Cameron and Clegg. People are sick to death of the same bunch of multinationals setting the agenda, no matter who is in power.
No wonder people have had enough. Until the elites in power stop taking all the wealth for themselves, whilst lecturing them on diversity and austerity, like they are silly children, Trump, Five Star Movement, UKIP, Sanders, Corbyn, The Eurosceptic Dutch Socialist Party, the Portuguese Left Bloc, Law and Justice, the French NF and whatnot will be the result. Brexit is just another symptom of this same justifiable rage.
You only have to look at EU Trade Commissioner Cecila Malmstrom to see this level of contempt for ordinary citizens, when voters of all political persuasions throughout the EU, rail against the unpopular TTIP deal. Over here there has been opposition from everyone from the TUSC, to Corbyn, Burnham and McDonnell, the RMT and ASLEF, Unite, The Greens, Lib Dems such as Charles Kennedy, large swathes of UKIP, Tories such as Peter Lilley and Zac Goldsmith, the BNP, Plaid, many SNP members and so on.
Cecilia Malmström’s boast that she ‘does not take her mandate from the European people’ was added to this week when she told the EU Business Summit in Brussels that she has no intention of submitting TTIP or CETA to public approval. She has also stated that ‘local opposition is a menace to multilateral agreements, and that ‘We can’t have local referendums on all trade agreements if we want to be serious. If we do that, we can close the shop.’
That sums up the arrogance of those in power. The working class have had enough of being "collateral damage" in globalisation.'
'Voters do not want unrestricted immigration, unrestricted corporate power, supranational institutions filled with unelected bureaucrats, overruling elected governments, foreign wars, privatisation, offshoring of jobs, corporate sovereignty via so called "free trade deals", austerity, excessive social liberalism, and excessive finance corporatism, whilst being subject to scaremongering, criticism and smears for daring to question it.
Ex Goldman Sachs spivs descend in private jets now working for some supranational institution or other, and tell citizens in already desperate countries, they must accept mass redundancies, liberalisation of their labour markets, privatisation of all of their state assets to foreign investors, the use of their tax money to fund bombing brown children abroad (despite being skint), and mass immigration, and if they complain they are "communists" or "racists".
The voters backed Labour under Blair and got foreign wars and more corporatism. They got the same from Cameron and Clegg. People are sick to death of the same bunch of multinationals setting the agenda, no matter who is in power.
No wonder people have had enough. Until the elites in power stop taking all the wealth for themselves, whilst lecturing them on diversity and austerity, like they are silly children, Trump, Five Star Movement, UKIP, Sanders, Corbyn, The Eurosceptic Dutch Socialist Party, the Portuguese Left Bloc, Law and Justice, the French NF and whatnot will be the result. Brexit is just another symptom of this same justifiable rage.
You only have to look at EU Trade Commissioner Cecila Malmstrom to see this level of contempt for ordinary citizens, when voters of all political persuasions throughout the EU, rail against the unpopular TTIP deal. Over here there has been opposition from everyone from the TUSC, to Corbyn, Burnham and McDonnell, the RMT and ASLEF, Unite, The Greens, Lib Dems such as Charles Kennedy, large swathes of UKIP, Tories such as Peter Lilley and Zac Goldsmith, the BNP, Plaid, many SNP members and so on.
Cecilia Malmström’s boast that she ‘does not take her mandate from the European people’ was added to this week when she told the EU Business Summit in Brussels that she has no intention of submitting TTIP or CETA to public approval. She has also stated that ‘local opposition is a menace to multilateral agreements, and that ‘We can’t have local referendums on all trade agreements if we want to be serious. If we do that, we can close the shop.’
That sums up the arrogance of those in power. The working class have had enough of being "collateral damage" in globalisation.'
Mancini Manus Domini
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- 1,653
I'll be voting in because the EU has played a huge contribution in keeping peace in Europe.
My father lived through the 2nd World War as a young child. He went with my Grandmother, Auntie and Uncle from Gorton to live in Hadfield at the outset of the war. He remembered being back in Gorton one night when an air raid took place. He said he was carried to an air raid shelter by his uncle as the search lights went up and the guns were shooting at the German bombers. After that my gran never let him go back to Gorton while the war was still on. I tell this story because when I really think about it it wasn't that long ago.
I've studied a bit of history, in particular the two world wars. The utter carnage and devastation that took place cannot truly be comprehended.
It seems to me everyone thinks the world wars were so long ago that they bare little or no relevence to our current time but that's where I believe we are making a mistake.
Nigel Farage was asked in one of the debates about how he saw the EU in 20 years from now, and he gleefully envisaged an EU that had collapsed totally.
If we vote to leave it's not hard to envisage a domino affect.
Who are countries going to blame next when things aren't going well, and there's no EU to blame? Well we can always start blaming each other again. Anyone, as long as it's not ourselves.
For all it's faults the EU is surely better option than the sheer hell that preceeded it.
Immigration? The Economy? It's the peace stupid!
My father lived through the 2nd World War as a young child. He went with my Grandmother, Auntie and Uncle from Gorton to live in Hadfield at the outset of the war. He remembered being back in Gorton one night when an air raid took place. He said he was carried to an air raid shelter by his uncle as the search lights went up and the guns were shooting at the German bombers. After that my gran never let him go back to Gorton while the war was still on. I tell this story because when I really think about it it wasn't that long ago.
I've studied a bit of history, in particular the two world wars. The utter carnage and devastation that took place cannot truly be comprehended.
It seems to me everyone thinks the world wars were so long ago that they bare little or no relevence to our current time but that's where I believe we are making a mistake.
Nigel Farage was asked in one of the debates about how he saw the EU in 20 years from now, and he gleefully envisaged an EU that had collapsed totally.
If we vote to leave it's not hard to envisage a domino affect.
Who are countries going to blame next when things aren't going well, and there's no EU to blame? Well we can always start blaming each other again. Anyone, as long as it's not ourselves.
For all it's faults the EU is surely better option than the sheer hell that preceeded it.
Immigration? The Economy? It's the peace stupid!
Kippax.
Well-Known Member
You know, it seems that the whole community I live around want out. I hardly bump into anyone who wants to stay in but I have a feeling we will be staying in.
Machiavelli
Well-Known Member
Gorton is far worse nowadays ;)I'll be voting in because the EU has played a huge contribution in keeping peace in Europe.
My father lived through the 2nd World War as a young child. He went with my Grandmother, Auntie and Uncle from Gorton to live in Hadfield at the outset of the war. He remembered being back in Gorton one night when an air raid took place. He said he was carried to an air raid shelter by his uncle as the search lights went up and the guns were shooting at the German bombers. After that my gran never let him go back to Gorton while the war was still on. I tell this story because when I really think about it it wasn't that long ago.
I've studied a bit of history, in particular the two world wars. The utter carnage and devastation that took place cannot truly be comprehended.
It seems to me everyone thinks the world wars were so long ago that they bare little or no relevence to our current time but that's where I believe we are making a mistake.
Nigel Farage was asked in one of the debates about how he saw the EU in 20 years from now, and he gleefully envisaged an EU that had collapsed totally.
If we vote to leave it's not hard to envisage a domino affect.
Who are countries going to blame next when things aren't going well, and there's no EU to blame? Well we can always start blaming each other again. Anyone, as long as it's not ourselves.
For all it's faults the EU is surely better option than the sheer hell that preceeded it.
Immigration? The Economy? It's the peace stupid!
Great story mate and you're 100% right to vote for what your experiences have lead you to.
smudgedj
Well-Known Member
NATO is responsible for keeping the peace militarily. Really you should know that.I'll be voting in because the EU has played a huge contribution in keeping peace in Europe.
My father lived through the 2nd World War as a young child. He went with my Grandmother, Auntie and Uncle from Gorton to live in Hadfield at the outset of the war. He remembered being back in Gorton one night when an air raid took place. He said he was carried to an air raid shelter by his uncle as the search lights went up and the guns were shooting at the German bombers. After that my gran never let him go back to Gorton while the war was still on. I tell this story because when I really think about it it wasn't that long ago.
I've studied a bit of history, in particular the two world wars. The utter carnage and devastation that took place cannot truly be comprehended.
It seems to me everyone thinks the world wars were so long ago that they bare little or no relevence to our current time but that's where I believe we are making a mistake.
Nigel Farage was asked in one of the debates about how he saw the EU in 20 years from now, and he gleefully envisaged an EU that had collapsed totally.
If we vote to leave it's not hard to envisage a domino affect.
Who are countries going to blame next when things aren't going well, and there's no EU to blame? Well we can always start blaming each other again. Anyone, as long as it's not ourselves.
For all it's faults the EU is surely better option than the sheer hell that preceeded it.
Immigration? The Economy? It's the peace stupid!
The EU itself, as the recent bombings in Paris and Brussels show, that they are ineffectual.
Are you expecting an EU army in the future?
(nice story btw)
Paul_Powers_Tash
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- 1 Jul 2013
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- 602
I'll be voting in because the EU has played a huge contribution in keeping peace in Europe.
My father lived through the 2nd World War as a young child. He went with my Grandmother, Auntie and Uncle from Gorton to live in Hadfield at the outset of the war. He remembered being back in Gorton one night when an air raid took place. He said he was carried to an air raid shelter by his uncle as the search lights went up and the guns were shooting at the German bombers. After that my gran never let him go back to Gorton while the war was still on. I tell this story because when I really think about it it wasn't that long ago.
I've studied a bit of history, in particular the two world wars. The utter carnage and devastation that took place cannot truly be comprehended.
It seems to me everyone thinks the world wars were so long ago that they bare little or no relevence to our current time but that's where I believe we are making a mistake.
Nigel Farage was asked in one of the debates about how he saw the EU in 20 years from now, and he gleefully envisaged an EU that had collapsed totally.
If we vote to leave it's not hard to envisage a domino affect.
Who are countries going to blame next when things aren't going well, and there's no EU to blame? Well we can always start blaming each other again. Anyone, as long as it's not ourselves.
For all it's faults the EU is surely better option than the sheer hell that preceeded it.
Immigration? The Economy? It's the peace stupid!
That's down to NATO stupid!!
I agree with all this.
I've even said that if the remain campaign could only say something along the lines of "We recognise immigration is a problem to many of you and it needs to be dealt with. We aim to reduce it and thus is how we will do it"
They would piss this referendum. The problem they have us that EU membership says that there is no way they can say this and therein lies the problem they have.
if we could stay in the EU and control immigration selectively then this would be no contest and we would vote IN by a huge majority
Machiavelli
Well-Known Member
So you're saying an out vote is based on immigration in your opinion?if we could stay in the EU and control immigration selectively then this would be no contest and we would vote IN by a huge majority
So you're saying an out vote is based on immigration in your opinion?
Yes i think it is the key issue for many tbh
Not 'immigration' in itself of course. That's way too simplistic. We clearly need and want immigrants. But the system of immigration and our ability to control it is what is at stake. Yes I think that if we vote leave then immigration will have been a key factor.
Doh.
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