EU referendum

[BigJoe#1]

Surely an EU army would replace the member states' armies, not be in addition to them, or am I missing something here. NATO would be US, Europe and the rest.

If that's the strategic thinking.... It would be interesting. A minor dispute between say Greece and Turkey (or is that a bad example?) could see the whole of the EU attacking Turkey. I would prefer to remain independent I think

 

[cibaman]

If the EU wants a European army, the EU will get a European army. I expect people in the 1970s were saying there would never be anything other than a common market.

Does the EU want an EU army? I thought it was really only Juncker spouting off about something that would make his position more important. He isn't "the EU" and doesn't seem to have a great deal of support on the matter. The EU army will not happen. Just as lot of things that EU bureaucrats would like to happen will not happen. The expansion of the EU means that it will be very difficult for any radical change to be agreed other than as a response to a crisis.

There was quite a lot of debate in the 70s and 80s about expanding the role of the Common Market. It wasn't such a dirty subject then. Ironically Margaret Thatcher was initially all in favour of the Single Market, thinking it would make other countries more like GB.

 

[halfcenturyup]

Does the EU want an EU army? I thought it was really only Juncker spouting off about something that would make his position more important. He isn't "the EU" and doesn't seem to have a great deal of support on the matter. The EU army will not happen. Just as lot of things that EU bureaucrats would like to happen will not happen. The expansion of the EU means that it will be very difficult for any radical change to be agreed other than as a response to a crisis.

There was quite a lot of debate in the 70s and 80s about expanding the role of the Common Market. It wasn't such a dirty subject then. Ironically Margaret Thatcher was initially all in favour of the Single Market, thinking it would make other countries more like GB.

I suppose it depends on whether you think the EU endgame is federalisation. In that case, there is no way on earth the member states could maintain responsibility for their own armies. You can't be half pregnant.

And I take your historical point, but by the 1970s I was meaning when we originally entered. I am pretty sure assurances were given then that there was to be no other integration, in the same way people are saying now there won't be federalisation.

 

[mcfc1632]

Just playing catch-up after a day on the piss at Ascot yesterday - only on page 923. With betting in mind I just checked the odds - Remain still 2 -1 on so massive favourites. I still am not finding anything other than a majority for Leave when I speak to people - but bookies are never wrong people say. Can anyone explain why they have Remain so far ahead?

 

[BigJoe#1]

Just playing catch-up after a day on the piss at Ascot yesterday - only on page 923. With betting in mind I just checked the odds - Remain still 2 -1 on so massive favourites. I still am not finding anything other than a majority for Leave when I speak to people - but bookies are never wrong people say. Can anyone explain why they have Remain so far ahead?

I agree in regard to people I speak to, in every aspect of my life there is a massive majority supporting leave, I would say much, much more than 75%, the betting really is an anomaly, especially when you look at the odds checker. It shows Remain being still odds on (though it is shortening) but the majority of bets are for to leave. This does not make sense unless there are literally millions going on the few remain bets... Gideon - where are the millions you pus aside for this weeks EU payments?

https://m.oddschecker.com/t/politic...referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result

 

[Blue Hefner]

Just playing catch-up after a day on the piss at Ascot yesterday - only on page 923. With betting in mind I just checked the odds - Remain still 2 -1 on so massive favourites. I still am not finding anything other than a majority for Leave when I speak to people - but bookies are never wrong people say. Can anyone explain why they have Remain so far ahead?

I imagine they have done thier own research in expected turnouts, areas that are likely to vote and also that people will eventually we worn down by the scare stories

I thing we will remain, but the vote will be very tight

 

[Malscigar]

To be honest in or out it really doesn't matter..humanity is finished

 

[urban genie]

I suppose it depends on whether you think the EU endgame is federalisation. In that case, there is no way on earth the member states could maintain responsibility for their own armies. You can't be half pregnant.

And I take your historical point, but by the 1970s I was meaning when we originally entered. I am pretty sure assurances were given then that there was to be no other integration, in the same way people are saying now there won't be federalisation.

There won't be a single army or federal union for decades if ever, despite the overtures of some EU beurocrats. All nation in Europe and wider world are still entrenched in the mindset that lines on maps and flags on poles, define us instead of our common humanity as one species we will see not see people giving up their soveriegnty (which we haven't despite leaves claims) we may work together for common goals and rules but nation will stay self ruled on the whole.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Just playing catch-up after a day on the piss at Ascot yesterday - only on page 923. With betting in mind I just checked the odds - Remain still 2 -1 on so massive favourites. I still am not finding anything other than a majority for Leave when I speak to people - but bookies are never wrong people say. Can anyone explain why they have Remain so far ahead?

This is a total mystery to me and others too. Every poll so far, well the vast majority, say out, folk you talk to are out, yet it's still 1/2 remain.
Mind you, I remember the FA cup between City and Wigan, we were, at one point 1/18 to win, and whilst anything can happen in football, (and it fucking did ),
with things like this there is generally a surety attached to betting prediction, and I just can't understand it.

 

[mcfc1632]

I suppose it depends on whether you think the EU endgame is federalisation. In that case, there is no way on earth the member states could maintain responsibility for their own armies. You can't be half pregnant.

And I take your historical point, but by the 1970s I was meaning when we originally entered. I am pretty sure assurances were given then that there was to be no other integration, in the same way people are saying now there won't be federalisation.

But of course we know that there will be federalisation - in is entirely the stated aim of the EU leaders. Also, Juncker's obsession with federalisation was the main reason why Cameron was so determined in his attempt to prevent his appointment. His success in that - and his recent 'negotiation' amply demonstrate a) the determined progress to federalisation and b) the standing that we have in the EU to 'influence' things.

All this bollocks that we hear about being at the centre of the EU and leading - we are like some unwelcome relative at a party that is only put up with because they pay the bills.

Mind you I saw a clip of Juncker and Tusk on Euro News the other day. Juncker was in a summit meeting with Putin and Tusk was asked about the Brexit polls. He stated that he was aware of the polls and tried to make robust comments about how they will be absolutely fine without us - but he looked like he was chewing on a lemon.