EU referendum

[JoeMercer'sWay]

No way you're working class.

Back in my day, we lived in a shoe box on a motorway and licked the surface clean for work. And paid for t'privilege.

sure the rest of them weren't licking your scalp clean? would explain where your hair went.

 

[Machiavelli]

I would love to but it would definitely be a ban and possibly a longer spell on the sidelines after my post Wembley and Swansea spells on the sidelines!

Don't risk it mate.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The NHS is exempt but don't let the facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory!

And how many times have politicians given us supposedly cast-iron assurances or promises that later proved to be completely worthless?

George Bush Snr in 1988 - "Watch my lips; no new taxes".
Barraxk Obama's pledge to shut Guantanamo Bay.
David Cameron/George Osborne in 2010 - We will eliminate the budget deficit by 2015. They still haven't succeeded. Now it's 2019 but that's looking less and less likely.
David Cameron - There will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS, in 2010. They then undertook the biggest top-down reorganisation of the NHS in its history.
David Cameron - We have no plans to increase VAT, before the 2010 election. They then increased it to 20%.
David Cameron - No cuts to tax credits, before the 2015 election. Then he cut them.
David Cameron - We will cap care costs in 2016, before the 2015 election. They then abandoned that promise.
Etc.
Etc.

And these are elected politicians so forgive me if I treat any promises of the un-elected EU Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom with a large pinch of salt. This is the woman who openly said (about the TTIP negotiations) "I don't take my mandate from the European people".

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Why are no poor people telling me I must stay in the EU ?It seems to be a lot of rich people telling me so.

 

[urban genie]

Why are no poor people telling me I must stay in the EU ?It seems to be a lot of rich people telling me so.

stay in the EU

I am not on the breadline but I ain't comfortable either does that help

 

[bluethrunthru]

And how many times have politicians given us supposedly cast-iron assurances or promises that later proved to be completely worthless?

George Bush Snr in 1988 - "Watch my lips; no new taxes".
Barraxk Obama's pledge to shut Guantanamo Bay.
David Cameron/George Osborne in 2010 - We will eliminate the budget deficit by 2015. They still haven't succeeded. Now it's 2019 but that's looking less and less likely.
David Cameron - There will be no top down reorganisation of the NHS, in 2010. They then undertook the biggest top-down reorganisation of the NHS in its history.
David Cameron - We have no plans to increase VAT, before the 2010 election. They then increased it to 20%.
David Cameron - No cuts to tax credits, before the 2015 election. Then he cut them.
David Cameron - We will cap care costs in 2016, before the 2015 election. They then abandoned that promise.
Etc.
Etc.

And these are elected politicians so forgive me if I treat any promises of the un-elected EU Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom with a large pinch of salt. This is the woman who openly said (about the TTIP negotiations) "I don't take my mandate from the European people".

You could argue elected politicians aren't to be trusted going off that list - maybe it is better to have unelected representatives who don't work in 4 to 5 year cycles for fear of being voted out?

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

stay in the EU

I am not on the breadline but I ain't comfortable either does that help

Not really pal, I'm just very mistrusting of the press and establishment. I think a lot are fed of up of being lied to and deceived. If it was all straight down the line I think many more would vote to remain. As it is, with low wages and no prospects of decent pensions, the poor outnumber the few. Those voting for Brexit are not all racist, in fact, most I know are more tolerant and work alongside more nationalities than those who are trying to sway opinion. They are voting for better wages and a better life for their kids, grandkids.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Erm, not disputing that, never have, never would. What's your point? Are you agreeing here or...?


Are you defending TPP here? In the same bracket, why would they trade with the EU in that case? The EU needs outward investment in order to survive, with or without Brexit. French and German politicians (ones not under Merkels jackboot) are opposing TTIP, the EU's deal with the USA. Without TTIP and if as you claim TPP nations won't need to tradew outside thsi new trade agreement, how is the EU meant to survive when it's the worst performing trading bloc in the world with no clear signs of improvement?

It's odd that many remainers claim to want globalisation, come up with inventive arguements as to why Britain, alone, would not be able to trade globally. (NB: This is not a direct dig at yourself, but your claim that Britain cannot or would not be able to trade with other nations such as Australia, New Zealand, China and Japan e.g., is one i've heard many times from Remainers who also seek the 'globalisation' dream, so I'm merely making an observation)

You were trying to make the pathetic implication that many of the working class thought that the middle class view the working class as "uneducated" and used the phrase as a tool to belittle their opinions as foolish and not to trusted. Your post being "That IS what is implied, though according to many people from a working class background, as these sort of statements are made by people from middle/upper-middle class backgrounds to belittle their opinions as foolish and not to be trusted."
You have no idea how many, if any, hold that view. Those, if any, whether working class or middle class, that hold that view, would have no evidence of that as many working class people do well.
Just a bit of shit stirring from you me thinks.

I am not defending anything, just laying out the situation, that Brexiters are saying we can do deals here, there and anywhere. It is clearly not true. I am happy to stay in the EU, the bloc needs amendments and hopefully one thing that would come out of this referendum is that the EU Parliament are finally realising change is needed. I want us in the bloc and to be at the front of the changes and be fully engaged in what is happening rather than the buffet option we currently hold.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Funny that story is on the bbc website so I thought you may have at least believed that one.

And Gordon brown never went to Rochdale did he?

This bit "Also love his threat about not allowing other countries to do what their people want? You could not make it up."
He never said that, that is the bit i am saying you made up.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

He made up the BBC article?

No, only a dick would think that. which would explain your post.