EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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AlgarveBlu said:
More evidence that the government are manipulating this situation, they know very well that the vast majority of the armed forces will vote to leave the EU and whilst they go on a registration overdrive for students and look to set up a polling tent in the chill out zone in Glastonbury etc there's circa 50,000 service personnel who could miss out - But hey ho a European army is just what they want to be part of!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...sh-soldiers-set-to-miss-out-on-eu-referendum/
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they will miss out if they don't register to vote, not sure that counts as manipulation
 
What gets me is the ease at which people are willing to accept that unelected people are able to pass laws that bind our country. Was there not a civil war once in his country to ensure that the laws are enacted by those elected by the people?

If this referendum was about scrapping of parliament and giving the monarchy the right to pass our laws ( or the majority of them) we would all vote fuck off.

Yet people are happy to Freely accept and actually argue that it is is fine for for unelected commissioners in Brussels to pass laws and let them bind us. It's madness really , using arguments like well our politicians are corrupt anyway, or I don't like the Tories, or these laws don't bother me really day to day.

Really? these people passing these laws are unelected and unaccountable and are not thinking about the best interests of the U.K. When they pass these laws. They pass these laws to try and get the laws of the Eu across all the nations the same . That's it. They want uniformity of laws and currency across Europe. Free movement of people across Europe is part of that. A Europe without borders. Vote in and that will simply be an acceptance of that and a continuance of the integration of laws currency etc etc etc etc .
 
There's been some good points made on this thread with valid arguments for both positions.
Still haven't got a clue which way I'm going to vote.
Heart says out but head says in.
The key question to my mind is whether it's worth all the cost and regulation and loss of sovereignty of being in the EU just to be part of a big trading bloc. I'm not convinced that our trading position will be impacted that badly by being on our own. Europe will still want to export to us as we would be their biggest market post Brexit and they won't penalise our exports if they want to export to us. Currently 3 out of the top 4 of our biggest trading partners in terms of exports are outside the EU with two of them not currently subject to bilateral trade deals (USA and China). It appears that defaulting to WTO rules seems to work and this scaremongering about trade deals may not be such a problem.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
I am interested from the brexiters just how strong they think the European balance sheet is to deal even with a small recession, small currency volatility and a small credit crunch, the above is an absolute best case scenario.

Interesting was at a meeting today with a fair amount of CFOs, economists and strategists all experts in the Asian economies, Not one believed Brexit Would win and the most common comment was I wouldn't worry, cool heads will prevail or similar. why did they think that ? because Europe simply could not cope with the effects as there is fragile growth, high unemployment and little ammunition left to stimulate the economies or refloat the banks. Similar opinion on voting for the Donald, it is not discounted for as people don't believe it could happen.

I think some investment on the downside for Europe could be wise as I think that people are far more inclined to step off the cliff than the institutions believe. That said I thought the scots could walk off the cliff too.

On the positive side I learnt something new today and that is Australia is 9 months off recording the longest period of continuous growth in OECD history and is still growing also population increasing due to immigration by 1.5% a year so we are ready to help with the capital and skills flight if it comes
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Surely these are two great arguments for Brexit?

Firstly, the EU spiralling out of control into recession. If we're in at that point then our contributions will increase (because our economy will be performing better in relative terms) and free trade will be worth less because the rest of the EU will be failing and less able to trade. If we're out then we will be able to trade with the rest of the world without having to have EU product restrictions or have to pay the tariffs the EU charges on lots of RoW trade.

Secondly, Australia, with its points based, limited, selective migration is growing at near unprecedented rates. Yes, it does well with natural resources, but it doesn't have unlimited people taking bites out of the apple either.
 
CityStu said:
Surely these are two great arguments for Brexit?

Firstly, the EU spiralling out of control into recession. If we're in at that point then our contributions will increase (because our economy will be performing better in relative terms) and free trade will be worth less because the rest of the EU will be failing and less able to trade. If we're out then we will be able to trade with the rest of the world without having to have EU product restrictions or have to pay the tariffs the EU charges on lots of RoW trade.

Secondly, Australia, with its points based, limited, selective migration is growing at near unprecedented rates. Yes, it does well with natural resources, but it doesn't have unlimited people taking bites out of the apple either.
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Limited but at a higher rate than the UK, immigration and natural resources growing an economy it's easy. Britain doesn't have what the growing economies of Asia need ie natural resources and agriculture. In or out wouldn't help Britain in this respect.

There are far more fundamental things than Brexit or staying in governing most of these issues
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
What gets me is the ease at which people are willing to accept that unelected people are able to pass laws that bind our country. Was there not a civil war once in his country to ensure that the laws are enacted by those elected by the people?
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Mainly because nobody really gives a fuck about the power of a hoover. What law the EU passed should have got me all worked up? Pretty sure everything that gets my goat is from our 'elected' rulers, who incidentally are usually supported by a tiny % of the electorate
 
Pino said:
Yes - It was illegal.
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Well that doesn't address your point that NATO started a war in 1989.
You are of course talking out of your arse but Just to make sure others in this thread understand why that's the case could you tell me when the wars started and why? and when was the first NATO intervention in the region and why?

If you cannot accurately answer those questions I suggest you shut the fuck up.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Well that doesn't address your point that NATO started a war in 1989.
You are of course talking out of your arse but Just to make sure others in this thread understand why that's the case could you tell me when the wars started and why? and when was the first NATO intervention in the region and why?

If you cannot accurately answer those questions I suggest you shut the fuck up.
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Tell me what Hans-Dietrich Genscher's role was, Mr Know it all.
As you know it all perhaps you can also tell us who the Croats supported in the 2nd World War ?
Who were the Partizans of Belgrade ?
 
Pino said:
Tell me what Hans-Dietrich Genscher's role was, Mr Know it all.
As you know it all perhaps you can also tell us who the Croats supported in the 2nd World War ?
Who were the Partizans of Belgrade ?
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You're serbian aren't you?

You still haven't answered my questions. Because you know you're talking out of your arse.
 
And just in case people are wondering what the fuck this has to do with the EU referendum. The Yugoslavian wars are a perfect example of why saying the EU has kept peace in Europe is complete bullshit. at the outbreak of the Yugoslavian wars the UN passed an arms embargo resolution, the WEU tried to organise a military force to impose the resolution but it was a fucking shambles. I know because I was part of it. At the same time in parallel NATO led by the US did the same thing. It worked. I know because I was part of it. With subsequent UN resolutions the two missions advanced but NATO eventually took over the whole thing as the WEU couldn't agree on or achieve anything.
Google "Operation Sharp Fence" Sharp Guard" "Maritime monitor" and "Maritime Guard" for further reading.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
And just in case people are wondering what the fuck this has to do with the EU referendum. The Yugoslavian wars are a perfect example of why saying the EU has kept peace in Europe is complete bullshit. at the outbreak of the Yugoslavian wars the UN passed an arms embargo resolution, the WEU tried to organise a military force to impose the resolution but it was a fucking shambles. I know because I was part of it. At the same time in parallel NATO led by the US did the same thing. It worked. I know because I was part of it. With subsequent UN resolutions the two missions advanced but NATO eventually took over the whole thing as the WEU couldn't agree on or achieve anything.
Google "Operation Sharp Fence" Sharp Guard" "Maritime monitor" and "Maritime Guard" for further reading.
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Seriously, are there lessons from that conflict about splitting up and resulting in fighting as opposed to sticking together that need to be given consideration in the context of this EU referendum - to get back on topic..
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Seriously, are there lessons from that conflict about splitting up and resulting in fighting as opposed to sticking together that need to be given consideration in the context of this EU referendum - to get back on topic..
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The lessons are simple. If you impose a unification that people don't agree with the tensions will boil until there is inevitable split. At that point it's just a matter of doing it quickly and finding the best compromise.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
The lessons are simple. If you impose a unification that people don't agree with the tensions will boil until there is inevitable split. At that point it's just a matter of doing it quickly and finding the best compromise.
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Are you talking about Yugoslavia or the EU? ;-)
 
Gelsons Dad said:
The lessons are simple. If you impose a unification that people don't agree with the tensions will boil until there is inevitable split. At that point it's just a matter of doing it quickly and finding the best compromise.
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isn't that why we are having a referendum? to find out if people agree or not?
 
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