Its also laughable that cameroon Stated 4/5mths ago that the uk would do very well out off the eu..But now its doom & more doom...
I completely disagree mate. I understand what you are saying, but the health of the economy is THE most important thing. In fact its the ONLY important thing.
You believe him?Regarding Cameron, I agree the forked tongue approach isn't great but he's employed different tactics for different opponents. Something we wanted Pellers to do for most of the season!
Cameron has already agreed to block TTIP from affecting our NHS.
I completely disagree mate. I understand what you are saying, but the health of the economy is THE most important thing. In fact its the ONLY important thing.
With a healthy, vibrant and prosperous economy, we generate the tax revenues we need to deliver the excellent public services everyone wants. We get to spend more on the NHS and more on welfare to support the most vulnerable. Critically, we get to spend more on schools and education and then we have a better educated, better skilled workforce that can command the better, more highly paid jobs. Leaving the lower paid, unskilled jobs for other people to do. in essence, we move the entire of society, "up market".
But the wealth creation has to come first. It's the prerequisite and necessarily the precursor to everything else. If you do it the other way around, paying for all the stuff you want first, then you end up with a country crippled with debt, burdened by unaffordable taxes and stifled growth. That's completely the wrong approach and history shows it never works.
Or perhaps the repentant Minister who took us into the single market an knows a little more than some ?
What would Britain’s position be if the UK electorate decides to remain in the EU on these slightly modified terms? Clearly we have abandoned the “heart of Europe” strategy. If that meant paying enthusiastic lip service on the continent to the European Project, so much the better. Supporting measures we did not want so as to win influence to prevent them happening was never a credible strategy. We have voted against 72 EU measures and lost every time.
Instead, we would be adopting the “appendix of Europe” strategy. The appendix is the one bit of the anatomy, left over from evolution, which serves no function. Likewise, our membership no longer serves any function in a body whose primary purpose (political union) we reject, whose main projects (the euro; Schengen) we are not part of, whose laws we find onerous and whose economic attractions have turned into costs. The alternative is to leave.
That was not my initial position. I was concerned it might involve disruption. But closer study convinces me that it can be done smoothly. There are plenty of precedents for countries leaving far closer unions than the EU. First we should adopt existing EU law into UK law: we would then be free to amend them in due course.
Next, under the “principle of continuity”, we would accede to most EU trade and other treaties on existing terms. In the unlikely event the EU refused a trade agreement, we could ensure our export trade was unaffected by using the savings on our EU contribution to reimburse the tariffs exporters would otherwise face, still leaving £4 billion to spare. We could make our own trade deals . As the Minister who implemented the Single Market, I believe membership brings little further benefit but exposes us to ever more regulation.
By Peter Lilley MP (Telegraph)
You believe him?
The chancellor desperately needs us in to share the burden of the failing states/currency, as well as legitimise their 21st century attempt to rule the EU. She's not really threatening us tbh, that's just the spin on the BBC headline. I think she realises German threats are not historically well received on this side if the channel. She'd much rather we bent ourselves over and appeased the EU. I seem to remember our PM coming back from a meeting waving a bit of paper at some point with various concessions and promises to reasure us, but there was some sticking point with Poland/benefits iirc - or am I getting mixed up with Chamberlain in the 1930's?I see we're being threatened by the Germans again
The chancellor desperately needs us in to share the burden of the failing states/currency, as well as legitimise their 21st century attempt to rule the EU. She's not really threatening us tbh, that's just the spin on the BBC headline. I think she realises German threats are not historically well received on this side if the channel. She'd much rather we bent ourselves over and appeased the EU. I seem to remember our PM coming back from a meeting waving a bit of paper at some point with various concessions and promises to reasure us, but there was some sticking point with Poland/benefits iirc - or am I getting mixed up with Chamberlain in the 1930's?
there is a story today that says the wwf and the rspb are saying brexit could be a threat to our birds and bees in the uk.
The inners really need to get their shit together as this fuckin nonsense and scare stories is the reason undecided vote is moving to out. Economic collapse , war and now the fuckin birds and bees leaving.......
Btw I know gove and boris get a hammering but preti Patel seems pretty switched on and switches my switch.... ;)
seems to me the referendum, which is more important than a general election, is in grave need of postponement.
The media, overwhelmingly for leaving, gets more hysterical every day, any pretence of impartiality long abandoned.
Each side wheels out ''experts'' to back them, yet before debate can prove or disprove the claims they are washed away by yet more hyperbole. The idea of the country taking such a crucial step on a 40% turnout is not acceptable, not least because politicians of all persuasions have themselves to blame for their well-earned reputation for sleaze and self-interest. But that would take such a u-turn it can never happen.
The outers seem to have settled on immigration as their "joker", not surprising as everything else is speculation. All the froth about a federal superstate, German ambition for total dominion over the EU, Turkey sending 12m migrants to the UK. british laws for the british etc, can all be talked about ad nauseum, whereas the public can see "immigrants", and voila we have a scapegoat.
The remain campaign is directly in the firing line of the mail express telegraph and the murdoch gutter press, formidable enemies of democracy, by any measure. That being so, the remain case is doing better than it should, all things considered, but not really scoring enough points to swing the pendulum.
seems to me the referendum, which is more important than a general election, is in grave need of postponement.
The media, overwhelmingly for leaving, gets more hysterical every day, any pretence of impartiality long abandoned.
Each side wheels out ''experts'' to back them, yet before debate can prove or disprove the claims they are washed away by yet more hyperbole. The idea of the country taking such a crucial step on a 40% turnout is not acceptable, not least because politicians of all persuasions have themselves to blame for their well-earned reputation for sleaze and self-interest. But that would take such a u-turn it can never happen.
The outers seem to have settled on immigration as their "joker", not surprising as everything else is speculation. All the froth about a federal superstate, German ambition for total dominion over the EU, Turkey sending 12m migrants to the UK. british laws for the british etc, can all be talked about ad nauseum, whereas the public can see "immigrants", and voila we have a scapegoat.
The remain campaign is directly in the firing line of the mail express telegraph and the murdoch gutter press, formidable enemies of democracy, by any measure. That being so, the remain case is doing better than it should, all things considered, but not really scoring enough points to swing the pendulum.
The chancellor desperately needs us in to share the burden of the failing states/currency, as well as legitimise their 21st century attempt to rule the EU. She's not really threatening us tbh, that's just the spin on the BBC headline. I think she realises German threats are not historically well received on this side if the channel. She'd much rather we bent ourselves over and appeased the EU. I seem to remember our PM coming back from a meeting waving a bit of paper at some point with various concessions and promises to reasure us, but there was some sticking point with Poland/benefits iirc - or am I getting mixed up with Chamberlain in the 1930's?
Interesting how perception changes with personal point of view. Most outers perceive similar bias towards remain! I agree with you about the general poor level of debate and campaigning, although as in outer I think the remain camp already have it in the bag tbh.seems to me the referendum, which is more important than a general election, is in grave need of postponement.
The media, overwhelmingly for leaving, gets more hysterical every day, any pretence of impartiality long abandoned.
Each side wheels out ''experts'' to back them, yet before debate can prove or disprove the claims they are washed away by yet more hyperbole. The idea of the country taking such a crucial step on a 40% turnout is not acceptable, not least because politicians of all persuasions have themselves to blame for their well-earned reputation for sleaze and self-interest. But that would take such a u-turn it can never happen.
The outers seem to have settled on immigration as their "joker", not surprising as everything else is speculation. All the froth about a federal superstate, German ambition for total dominion over the EU, Turkey sending 12m migrants to the UK. british laws for the british etc, can all be talked about ad nauseum, whereas the public can see "immigrants", and voila we have a scapegoat.
The remain campaign is directly in the firing line of the mail express telegraph and the murdoch gutter press, formidable enemies of democracy, by any measure. That being so, the remain case is doing better than it should, all things considered, but not really scoring enough points to swing the pendulum.
Fair enough. I think the French have an historic chip on their shoulder about Britain which goes all the way back to de Gaul not wanting us in because we were an 'american trojan horse'.I think you've got the wrong country their - the Germans are actually more closely aligned to the uk mentality in terms of business productivity etc it's the French that are the driving force in these matters, it's worth remembering the French were the ones who wanted to curb German industrial dominance and they certainly were the number 1 protagonists in pushing forward with the euro so they could pool German efficiency into a combined currency. France as we know are more inherently socialist in terms of workers rights, Schroeder made Germany more efficient by eroding workers rights and pay increases to target full employment.
I see the French have just recently polled up to 62% that they want a Brexit - I assume the far right have something to do with those figures though so they can get their frexit
It does seem that a lot of inners assume that we would be at a virtual state of war post brexit. I'm hoping we don't have to brick up the channel tunnel and never eat croissants again tbh.
Yeah, what they should have said was the Turkish are criminals and millions will invade Britain..
seems to me the referendum, which is more important than a general election, is in grave need of postponement.
The media, overwhelmingly for leaving, gets more hysterical every day, any pretence of impartiality long abandoned.
Each side wheels out ''experts'' to back them, yet before debate can prove or disprove the claims they are washed away by yet more hyperbole. The idea of the country taking such a crucial step on a 40% turnout is not acceptable, not least because politicians of all persuasions have themselves to blame for their well-earned reputation for sleaze and self-interest. But that would take such a u-turn it can never happen.
The outers seem to have settled on immigration as their "joker", not surprising as everything else is speculation. All the froth about a federal superstate, German ambition for total dominion over the EU, Turkey sending 12m migrants to the UK. british laws for the british etc, can all be talked about ad nauseum, whereas the public can see "immigrants", and voila we have a scapegoat.
The remain campaign is directly in the firing line of the mail express telegraph and the murdoch gutter press, formidable enemies of democracy, by any measure. That being so, the remain case is doing better than it should, all things considered, but not really scoring enough points to swing the pendulum.
Why do you think the turnout will be as low as 40%?
You could not be more wrong,
The economy can look after itself because most people are driven to earn a living and try an do "Well", its the concept of freedom to determine your own destiny you fail to grasp and thats just sad, its living in a country where you have rights that were fought for and won to the point where ALL men are equal before the law, you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to trial by a jury, you have access to the queens bench in which it is your right to face any person making a claim on you.
The Hillsborough inquiry would not have happened under civil law, the cover up would have stood as a final decision because its so open to corruption by the state.
Defense of the realm is also a priority for the UK government, they are charged with such when taking office, they serve the people and are elected or kicked out by the will of the people, not a f*cking committee of a political elite.