FA Watch

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/jan/09/wayne-rooney-manchester-united" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... ter-united</a>

Nobody thinks Wayne Rooney is the new Gazza any more. And that's a good thing. For after he illuminated Euro 2004 with his brilliance, many foresaw a phenomenal but short career. There were even fears that the prodigy had already peaked, and it would be downhill from here. The boy's incendiary genius was instinctive but would burn out; his body-shape was not conducive to a long run at the top and his background and mentality made him ill-equipped for the rigours of adulation and a profession, and the temptations of wealth. He would get flabby and frustrated. His brashness would be occluded by his recklessness. He would slowly, sadly self-destruct.

What a lot of shallow, snobby nonsense.

Rooney, it turns out, is more balanced and intelligent than such observers gave him credit for. Likewise his entourage appears more well intentioned than had been presumed. There is, however, at least one way in which Rooney does resemble Gazza: he is prone to splenetic acts of aggression, a little like the infamous FA Cup final tackle on Gary Charles that triggered the beginning of the end for Gazza. Yet it seems that all the public concern for Rooney has subliminally affected officials, for the Manchester United striker seems to receive more compassion from referees than any other Premier League player. It is amazing that he has not been sent off in this country since December 2002.

For many seasons English referees have overlooked or somehow failed to see blatant Rooney offences. Normally teenage firebrands calm as they get older, but Rooney's offences are becoming more common – even though the average number of yellow and red cards he's received has actually dipped since the 2005-06 season. Last weekend, for instance, he crudely chopped down a Southampton defender for no good reason. Perhaps he was frustrated at all the chances he has been missing recently, just as he appeared to be when sticking in a brutal, late two-footed tackle on Niko Kranjcar as Portsmouth eliminated United from the FA Cup last March. Both times he should have been sent off, neither time did he see red. He went similarly unpunished at Stoke on Boxing Day after his elbow jerked angrily in the direction of Abdoulaye Faye's face.

English referees have lived through the Gazza comparisons and have also heard the ubiquitous claim that "to take away that side of his game is to diminish Rooney as a player", so it would be understandable if they tolerated Rooney lunges, or his frequent rants, because they are subconsciously thinking "the poor lad can't help it".

They have also been exposed to the sinister campaign against the Argentine official and a certain "Portuguese winker" when Rooney was deservedly sent off for stamping on Ricardo Carvalho in the 2006 World Cup. They would be forgiven, then, for fearing that to dismiss Rooney would be to bring a storm of disingenuous scorn on themselves or some other poor unfortunate, or even the sort of official hostility that Graham Poll encountered when he expelled another England darling, John Terry.

Non-English referees are less exposed to this cant. Perhaps that is why Rooney has been sent off three times abroad; that toll would likely be higher if Sir Alex Ferguson and Sven-Goran Eriksson had not pre-emptively substituted him on at least three occasions (against Spain, Villarreal and in a friendly with Kaizer Chiefs). Yet even abroad Rooney can benefit from strangely benign officiating, whether in Northern Ireland in 2005, when anger transformed him into a dangerous anarchist, or in Denmark and Uefa HQ last month when no sanction ensued from his ugly clash with the prostrate Aalborg midfielder Kasper Risgard.

The stakes and tension will be high when Manchester United meet Chelsea on Sunday. Will Rooney be able to contain himself? And if he doesn't, will the referee notice?
 
Thanks for everyone's contributions.

The main issue we have to decide pretty much here and now is in what format this campaign is taken forward. Do we keep it purely within this site and just for City fans here to comment upon, as was suggested by myself originally (purely for selfish reasons of trying to keep it controllable for admin purposes) or do we open matters up to a wider audience, including fans of other clubs in the process possibly by setting up a separate website (say <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fawatch.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.fawatch.co.uk</a>).

It is clear from reading all your contributions again, particularly in relation to this narrow matter, that there is a very clear desire that we set up a separate website. I have based this on the observations which I have set out at the end of this message, which puts all of the current thinking on this matter in one post, for future reference.

If there are no serious objections to this 'decision' (!) we then need to consider how this could be taken forward in a practical sense. the short answer is I don't know, but hopefully I know people who do.

Can I therefore ask Sam the Drummer to liaise with Ric to jointly take this forward, liaising with the interested parties as listed below and come up with a plan which we can put into practice, with a view to reporting back say on Monday, explaining how you propose to do it - if it ain't finished by then just say so! I will pm Sam and Ric separately so they know about their 'volunteering' as soon as possible - if this poses a problem to Sam and Ric please shout up and we'll look for alternatives. If anyone else desperately wants to get involved with Sam and Ric in this process please let them know directly - it's great this delegation lark!

I understand it costs a few quid to set this up and I'm more than happy to pay for this, albeit I haven't got a clue as to how to go about it and would prefer that one of the working group registers it, lets me know exactly how much and I can pay them by bank transfer.

On a separate note I've not been contacted by any journalist other than Ian Cheeseman so far. The FA have not been in touch either, although to be fair I wouldn't expect them to respond this quickly.

Thanks once again everybody.

Monty




The Way Ahead thread

Page 1

Mouldens Chippy

If it were to come from this single forum it would just look like 'sour grapes' from a section of MCFC supporters.

It really could do with its own website (the domain name is available) and be inclusive of all the clubs in the Prem (especially those not in the sky 4). It would then seem to be a plausible way of applying pressure for impartiality in all dealings.

Page 2

Bigga

I absolutely agree with (Mouldens Chippy). It makes sense and makes the whole event impartial. The fact that "something triggered the campaign" is going to be put down to the Adebayor incident as the 'the last straw'.

At least, with a separate website, you can retrospective with every decision made in the last x amount of years. Putting it on these pages will dismiss the campaign out of hand as no other fans from other clubs will join in.

It's the OTHER fans that will make this noteworthy, Monty.

Page 3

Mike Channon’s Windmill

Great idea for a campaign - put it to the national fans forum and get the idea publicised through the national media - this could take off.


FA Watch thread

Page 3

Chippy boy

What about getting other clubs forums mobilized? I am sure Spurs mad (the forum) or Toffee Talk for example would have some members interested in contributing?

Page 5

Blukari

ALL the other clubs within the Premier League, have to come together to highlight this totally unbalanced favouritism within the league, within UEFA, the FA and the massively biased media. All inconsistencies need to be highlighted within other games within the league. Maybe then this letter needs to be brought to the attention of other clubs fans groups.

Page 9

Not My Fault

I would go as far as to say get fans of other teams involved. Notlob, Blackburn, Burnley, all the local teams. It's an anti northern/top 4 situation. Blitz there forums and get them involved too. Only adds further weight to the cause.


Page 13

Bluebeenie

Had a look and found that <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fawatch.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.fawatch.co.uk</a> is currently unregistered. Think it would be helpful as then its more of a football fan initiative rather than a City fans initiative and others might be more inclined to join in.

Responded to at page 14 by Not My Fault

Great idea. Could it be linked to Bluemoon? That way it will be know that it was the Manchester City fans that got the ball rolling

Page 14

Interpol

A website sounds a top idea. That way incidents could be logged by fans as and when they happen, and when something like "Bayor-gate" crops up you have a ready made list to hand to reel off to the authorities that so ineptly rule this game.

Prestwich Blue

You can set up a blog for nothing and that's probably best for now. Every week you can highlight the glaring inconsistencies.

Moomba

I think it would be better if it was a campaign for all supporters, having it as a MCFC supporters campaign might put off a few that would otherwise contribute.

Page 15

Blue Beenie

I’m sure something could be put on (Bluemoon) but would you want to. It might alienate some clubs fans from helping; the ultimate aim would be for fans of all clubs to pressure the FA.

Not My Fault

I like the blog idea. Simple quick and can be run by the OP for free. Or a "twitter page" I'm sure that way you would get celeb support? Link them all to Facebook etc too.

Sam The Drummer

We could have a websites that support this campaign sort of section so that it doesn’t look like it’s a city bias.

Nixon the Bike Thief

The use of a website is a good idea in theory but be careful as it could also open up a can of worms that could undermine the approach you are already undertaking. i.e. presumably you would need to open it up to folks to log there issues, this in itself leaves it open to abuse. You then have the Copyright issues of images that are bound to end up on there. The site would need to be properly moderated and monitored which is a lot of work for somebody.

Not My Fault

This ^^^^^ a separate web address that links to a page on the forum somewhere? Plus a link on here for us to keep up to date? Ric/Mod's is this something that could be looked at? Then other forums/site/fans could use the link to express their thoughts and ideas.

Without A Dream

The website is a brilliant idea. Impressive as the current stand is it's far too easy to dismiss as a group of City fans with their own bitter agenda.

Page 16

Chippy Boy

I think website like Bluemoon is all that's required. But not affiliated to any one particular club nor set of supporters.

A front page saying what it's all about. And a forum where people can post alleged "unfairness".

Mike Channon’s Windmill

A separate forum would suffice - as Match day, Transfer and Main forums

Not My Fault

But (a separate forum) wouldn’t be open to the masses. I think what you suggest is a great idea but for the sake of £6 the OP may as well register the web address and if it can be linked to this site and be directed to the page/forum you suggest then other clubs fans can have access.

(responded to by chippy boy on page 17)

I agree

Page 17

Dannybcity

Sounds like a blog is the way forwards, something other than this thread is needed and I also think it needs to be club neutral. People won't sign up to it if they think we might also be biased.

Kramer

Why not a closed website for information only? listing the current cases and the results of previous reports. Could also have a link to report incidents via e-mail, follow the FA lead and require registration before submission as well. This way the webmaster would be in total control of content thus getting over any copyright issues etc.

Without A Dream

Actually how about a group on facebook. It would be really easy to spread the word and document letters etc. Discussion board would already be there etc.

Sam the Drummer

Right combining all of the ideas:

We have a website fawatch.co.uk

Which is like a blog, which on the front page contains incidents which the fa has turned a blind eye to.

There is a private contact form so anyone can submit an incident with whatever evidence they can find i.e. youtube video.

Someone/some of us? can look through these and appropriately type up the case for submission on the front page whilst someone else can send off emails to the appropriate people FA etc asking why nobody was punished.

There can be another page with links to people/websites that support this campaign to help create interest.

There could also be a page containing cases where the person was punished

We could then send emails to mods of other forums asking if they would make a post about the website and if they would like to be included on the support page

(responded to by Not My Fault at page 18)

This would be perfect. Brings us back to linking it to Bluemoon though.

Page 18

Sboro Blue

I think Facebook would spread the word.

Sam The Drummer

Facebook groups and twitters can be made as well with links to the site it all helps!

Not My fault

All I suggest is we ask Ric to link this to the site if only for pure ease? This would mean you can update it etc without having to get all Tech. This option for me is the best, quickest and cheapest way to do it. We know the media check the site, we know the club read it too and this to me says we should keep it here somehow? Problem is you need to join the site to post and fans of other clubs (except the sad few) won’t do that. That’s why I suggested the idea of buying that web address for £^ and linking it to here would be a better option, that way other fans could contribute.

Sam The Drummer

Aye a new forum on bluemoon would be the cheapest/quickest way to do things, but it may look as though its a few bitter city fans set out to get revenge.

Page 19

I See Skies Of Blue

I really think this could work, but for it to have real impact it has to be completely unconnected to any one club of forum, otherwise it makes us look bitter. The more people who support other clubs the better, it's not about City, it's about the system.

Page 20

Bimbo Bob

Start a blog or do a facebook page. Both are free and simple to use plus other people can join them. If you make it a facebook page it will be multi club which is what we need. Not a City run thing which will put everyone else off the idea.
 
You've posted some great articles on Rooney pee dubya. I didn't realise he was quite so angelic in the eyes of Premier League referees; it's quite remarkable when you think about it and he is precisely the type of individual we would expect to be riding high in the charts in terms of the number of times he will appear on 'FA Watch'.

Does someone want to run a book on who's going to top the league?

Or for a bit of fun can we devise a 'Fantasy (Disciplinary) Football' competition?

Or even a separate 'Rooney Watch'?

I'll get my coat!
 
Undertaking a website is a huge commitment, especially doing it properly, Ric will know about that. We could shoot ourselves in the foot on this before we even start if it isn't managed properly. Having said that if we have volunteers - with experience - it could work.

My initial thought is to run it as it is and see where it takes us. Walk before we run. The main reason for this is that this way forward involves Monty directly. I sense a move to a website would detach him from the core of the movement. This shouldn't happen.
 
Monty
Would be willing to contribute to costs, and I think <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fa-watch.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.fa-watch.org</a> might be a better domain name
 
kramer said:
Monty
Would be willing to contribute to costs, and I think <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fa-watch.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fa-watch.org</a> might be a better domain name
Any reason why as opposed to fawatch.co.uk?
 
City Raider said:
Undertaking a website is a huge commitment, especially doing it properly, Ric will know about that. We could shoot ourselves in the foot on this before we even start if it isn't managed properly. Having said that if we have volunteers - with experience - it could work.

My initial thought is to run it as it is and see where it takes us. Walk before we run. The main reason for this is that this way forward involves Monty directly. I sense a move to a website would detach him from the core of the movement. This shouldn't happen.

Thanks for that CR - but don't worry about me - I'll still be involved I'm sure, and hopefully doing something that will play to my strengths. As you say this is potentially a mammoth task (as is this website on its own I'd imagine) which is why, when this was an embryonic idea in my mind, that I suggested we set it up in the way I originally put forward - because it would have been the only way I would have coped with it if I was to have been responsible for everything - as I said, know your limitations, and I certainly know mine!

But the enthusiasm for this 'project' has been quite overwhelming which is why ultimately I've said let's widen it out as has been suggested by the vast majority - whilst this will involve a level of commitment above and beyond what I can give it sounds like there is plenty of willing volunteers to take this forward, and that's just from the few people who know about it so far.

I've really been touched about some of the nice comments made on here but I'm simply someone who articulated something that so many others were thinking - the timing just happened to be right - if I'd have suggested this a fortnight ago it wouldn't have taken off in quite the same way as this.

But we are where we are.
 
kramer said:
Monty
Would be willing to contribute to costs, and I think <a class="postlink" href="http://www.fa-watch.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.fa-watch.org</a> might be a better domain name

Thanks Kramer - but as long as it's not too exhorbitant I don't mind paying since it was my stupid idea in the first place - or was it??!!

Anyway, as for the .org, I suppose it's gives the aura of something quite impressive so it may well be a good idea to go with that instead. But I would imagine that starts getting pricier, so depending on the amounts it could be I ask for contributions.
 
.org is just more appropriate for non-commercial enterprises, which this surely is.

I don't believe it will be any more expensive than .co.uk, perhaps less so.

EDIT: Shows what little I know. It's £20 for 2 years of .org vs £6 for 2 years of .co.uk

Still the .org is better. I will happily chip in a tenner if it's needed?
 

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