Fernandinho

[conormcfc]

This forum has been here before with a Brazilian player, namely Jo. I said after 4 or 5 games that he was no superstar and was absolutely slated for daring to even suggest he was anything less than a young genius on a par with with the world's best.

I am now saying something similar ( not the same) about Fernandinho. He is a good footballer, who reads the game well and passes the ball neatly, but he is no world beater. There's a reason he does not get in the Brazilian team and why he has not played in a better sides before now. I do not see the magic in his boots that some people do because it isn't there. He will have good games, bad games and so-so games and I doubt he will do a lot wrong. Played in the right position, neither does Garcia, who, by the way, is also a decent player.

Bluemoon has its' favourites and its' villans. Garcia and Lescott are currently slagged by most as was Barry, whereas Fernandinho and Jovetic can do no wrong. Sorry, but I am just not interested in which player is currently in fashion and which isn't. In my opinion, Fernandinho is decent, but not brilliant and I'm unsure if he is the type of player we need to take us forward. For me, Gareth Barry was/is better.

I'd be happy to come back in 10 or 20 games time and say I was completely wrong about him, but I don't think that will be necessary. Rather I expect that, like with Jo, the 'magic Brazilian specs' will not survive the winter and gradually people will arrive at a more realistic view of Fernandinho.

I took 2 minutes to take a look at some of your earlier posts and I can't see anything about Jo.

Speaking of Brazilians though, I noticed you referring to Robinho as "the best player in the world" when we signed him.

How's that glass house of yours?

Fernandinho didn't get in the Brazil team because he played in the Ukrainian league, this has been covered many times.

The Jo posts definitely exist

Robinho, at his best. was potentially the best. Unfortunately, we didn't see his potential often enough.

But, back to the point. Why did Fernandinho stay in the Ukraine for so long? Where were the offers from the top European teams in seasons past? Surely his agent would have been keen to get him a higher profile?

As I said, I'd be happy to come back here and say I was wrong, but at the moment I see a decent player. I don't see a special player.

Well they don't, clearly. I checked till about November of that year so unless you made the posts after that point (in which case making your point about recognizing him being crap after just 4/5 games irrelevant), there are no posts about Jo to be read.

Robinho was never the best player in the world, he was never in that discussion in all honesty (and I was a big fan of his). So there is at best a massive flaw in you accusing people of wearing 'magic Brazilian specs' when it comes to Jo and Fernandinho, when you're guilty of exactly the same with other players.

Shakhtar have never been short on cash. They weren't gonna sell him for anything less than a huge fee and we were obviously one of the only clubs willing to pay it. I'm sure he would've wanted to move to a major league sooner, but stumbling blocks like your club not being willing to sell and it being virtually impossible to get any recognition playing in the Ukrainian league (see lack of Brazil caps) and you have your answer as to why he was there for so long. It's no coincidence that the big clubs came calling as soon as he started dominating games in the CL in front of a wider audience.

 

[mammutly]

I took 2 minutes to take a look at some of your earlier posts and I can't see anything about Jo.

Speaking of Brazilians though, I noticed you referring to Robinho as "the best player in the world" when we signed him.

How's that glass house of yours?

Fernandinho didn't get in the Brazil team because he played in the Ukrainian league, this has been covered many times.

The Jo posts definitely exist

Robinho, at his best. was potentially the best. Unfortunately, we didn't see his potential often enough.

But, back to the point. Why did Fernandinho stay in the Ukraine for so long? Where were the offers from the top European teams in seasons past? Surely his agent would have been keen to get him a higher profile?

As I said, I'd be happy to come back here and say I was wrong, but at the moment I see a decent player. I don't see a special player.

Well they don't, clearly. I checked till about November of that year so unless you made the posts after that point (in which case making your point about recognizing him being crap after just 4/5 games irrelevant), there are no posts about Jo to be read.

Robinho was never the best player in the world, he was never in that discussion in all honesty (and I was a big fan of his). So there is at best a massive flaw in you accusing people of wearing 'magic Brazilian specs' when it comes to Jo and Fernandinho, when you're guilty of exactly the same with other players.

Shakhtar have never been short on cash. They weren't gonna sell him for anything less than a huge fee and we were obviously one of the only clubs willing to pay it. I'm sure he would've wanted to move to a major league sooner, but stumbling blocks like your club not being willing to sell and it being virtually impossible to get any recognition playing in the Ukrainian league (see lack of Brazil caps) and you have your answer as to why he was there for so long. It's no coincidence that the big clubs came calling as soon as he started dominating games in the CL in front of a wider audience.

The search facility won't allow me to look for words containing less than 3 letters. However, I did make a number of observations regarding Jo that were slated for the reasons I outlined previously.

I would not agree that Robinho was never in "that discussion".


IF Fernandinho did, as you claim, dominate games in the CL, wouldn't that have brought him to the attention of the national team coach? Especially if, as you suggest, the big clubs came calling as a result.

 

[conormcfc]

The Jo posts definitely exist

Robinho, at his best. was potentially the best. Unfortunately, we didn't see his potential often enough.

But, back to the point. Why did Fernandinho stay in the Ukraine for so long? Where were the offers from the top European teams in seasons past? Surely his agent would have been keen to get him a higher profile?

As I said, I'd be happy to come back here and say I was wrong, but at the moment I see a decent player. I don't see a special player.

Well they don't, clearly. I checked till about November of that year so unless you made the posts after that point (in which case making your point about recognizing him being crap after just 4/5 games irrelevant), there are no posts about Jo to be read.

Robinho was never the best player in the world, he was never in that discussion in all honesty (and I was a big fan of his). So there is at best a massive flaw in you accusing people of wearing 'magic Brazilian specs' when it comes to Jo and Fernandinho, when you're guilty of exactly the same with other players.

Shakhtar have never been short on cash. They weren't gonna sell him for anything less than a huge fee and we were obviously one of the only clubs willing to pay it. I'm sure he would've wanted to move to a major league sooner, but stumbling blocks like your club not being willing to sell and it being virtually impossible to get any recognition playing in the Ukrainian league (see lack of Brazil caps) and you have your answer as to why he was there for so long. It's no coincidence that the big clubs came calling as soon as he started dominating games in the CL in front of a wider audience.

The search facility won't allow me to look for words containing less than 3 letters. However, I did make a number of observations regarding Jo that were slated for the reasons I outlined previously.

I would not agree that Robinho was never in "that discussion".


IF Fernandinho did, as you claim, dominate games in the CL, wouldn't that have brought him to the attention of the national team coach? Especially if, as you suggest, the big clubs came calling as a result.

You can repeat it as many times as you want, haha. There's nowt there.

It probably did bring him to the attention of the Brazil coaches but they still won't pick him because of the league he regularly plays in. The Brazilian selection policy has always been massively flawed, that's why they currently have situations going on with shit like Fred and Jo being their first choice strikers because they play in Brazil whilst Diego Costa who is joint top scorer in La liga with Messi at the moment can't get a look in. Are Fred and Jo better than Diego Costa?

 

[daxman]

Well they don't, clearly. I checked till about November of that year so unless you made the posts after that point (in which case making your point about recognizing him being crap after just 4/5 games irrelevant), there are no posts about Jo to be read.

Robinho was never the best player in the world, he was never in that discussion in all honesty (and I was a big fan of his). So there is at best a massive flaw in you accusing people of wearing 'magic Brazilian specs' when it comes to Jo and Fernandinho, when you're guilty of exactly the same with other players.

Shakhtar have never been short on cash. They weren't gonna sell him for anything less than a huge fee and we were obviously one of the only clubs willing to pay it. I'm sure he would've wanted to move to a major league sooner, but stumbling blocks like your club not being willing to sell and it being virtually impossible to get any recognition playing in the Ukrainian league (see lack of Brazil caps) and you have your answer as to why he was there for so long. It's no coincidence that the big clubs came calling as soon as he started dominating games in the CL in front of a wider audience.

The search facility won't allow me to look for words containing less than 3 letters. However, I did make a number of observations regarding Jo that were slated for the reasons I outlined previously.

I would not agree that Robinho was never in "that discussion".


IF Fernandinho did, as you claim, dominate games in the CL, wouldn't that have brought him to the attention of the national team coach? Especially if, as you suggest, the big clubs came calling as a result.

You can repeat it as many times as you want, haha. There's nowt there.

It probably did bring him to the attention of the Brazil coaches but they still won't pick him because of the league he regularly plays in. The Brazilian selection policy has always been massively flawed, that's why they currently have situations going on with shit like Fred and Jo being their first choice strikers because they play in Brazil whilst Diego Costa who is joint top scorer in La liga with Messi at the moment can't get a look in. Are Fred and Jo better than Diego Costa?

Yes! Until this season, Diego Costa was more of an enigma than a good player by any stretch of the imagination. So yes, Fred is a better striker, Longer period of consistency and greatly experienced. Costa is having a breakout season, but that is no reason to suddenly assume he is better than Fred. As for Jo, well that one beats me.

 

[mammutly]

Getting way off topic now, but here you go:

<a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98952</a>



As for the comparable talents of Brazilian strikers in general, I don't know enough to comment

 

[Blue2112]

Have to say I'm in agreement with Mammulty over Fernandinho. I know it's not a popular view on here and all the experts will tell me about what he does off the ball and how great he is at breaking up the opposing attacks and making the simple ball to our more creative players is worth more than its weight in gold but from what I've seen so far is an average to decent footballer whom is never in a million years worth what we paid for him and before anyone tells me its not my money so why should I be bothered what we paid, the point is for the money he cost I expect better quality and surely there are players out there with more to offer. I've watched him lose the ball quite often or be caught in possession wanting more time and then he is left making a late tackle resulting in a number of bookings so far. It's just my opinion and I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong but so far I'm unimpressed.

 

[daxman]

Have to say I'm in agreement with Mammulty over Fernandinho. I know it's not a popular view on here and all the experts will tell me about what he does off the ball and how great he is at breaking up the opposing attacks and making the simple ball to our more creative players is worth more than its weight in gold but from what I've seen so far is an average to decent footballer whom is never in a million years worth what we paid for him and before anyone tells me its not my money so why should I be bothered what we paid, the point is for the money he cost I expect better quality and surely there are players out there with more to offer. I've watched him lose the ball quite often or e caught in possession looking for more time and then he is left making a late tackle resulting in a number of bookongs so far. It's just my opinion and I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong but so far I'm unimpressed.

When I watch him, I see Ramirez at Chelsea. Perhaps at his best, he'd be slightly superior. So yes, he is not a 34 million dollar player in my opinion. But he is a very good Centra mid. He is better than anyone we have or have lost at that position: Barry included.

In hindsight, we should probably have gotten Paulihno instead. Cheaper, younger, more rounded, and presumably (at least so far) better!

 

[conormcfc]

Yes! Until this season, Diego Costa was more of an enigma than a good player by any stretch of the imagination. So yes, Fred is a better striker, Longer period of consistency and greatly experienced. Costa is having a breakout season, but that is no reason to suddenly assume he is better than Fred. As for Jo, well that one beats me.

Consistency?

Fred's record in Europe :

119 starts - 41 goals

Released on a free by Lyon after contributing nothing in his last 2 years there. No other European club would go near him.

Costa's record in Europe:

63 starts - 32 goals

Spanish football federation attempting to call him up to play for them instead of Brazil.

If Fred was anything more than an average goalpoacher he'd have been starting in that Brazil team for years.

Getting way off topic now, but here you go:

<a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98952</a>

So a thread made in December of that year, as I've already pointed out this is irrelevant to the point you made about telling everyone how bad he was 'after 4 or 5 games'.

 

[Blue2112]

Have to say I'm in agreement with Mammulty over Fernandinho. I know it's not a popular view on here and all the experts will tell me about what he does off the ball and how great he is at breaking up the opposing attacks and making the simple ball to our more creative players is worth more than its weight in gold but from what I've seen so far is an average to decent footballer whom is never in a million years worth what we paid for him and before anyone tells me its not my money so why should I be bothered what we paid, the point is for the money he cost I expect better quality and surely there are players out there with more to offer. I've watched him lose the ball quite often or e caught in possession looking for more time and then he is left making a late tackle resulting in a number of bookongs so far. It's just my opinion and I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong but so far I'm unimpressed.

When I watch him, I see Ramirez at Chelsea. Perhaps at his best, he'd be slightly superior. So yes, he is not a 34 million dollar player in my opinion. But he is a very good Centra mid. He is better than anyone we have or have lost at that position: Barry included.

In hindsight, we should probably have gotten Paulihno instead. Cheaper, younger, more rounded, and presumably (at least so far) better!

I think Ramires is a much better player but to be fair he's been playing in the Premier a lot longer and it make take Fernandinho some time to adjust. For now I just see an average to good midfielder and at the level we are now competing week in week out on all fronts the players at this club need to be better than that. I still think as fans we've not collectively come to terms with the level we're now at and what is demanded to stay here and then go that bit extra to win trophies. We rightly don't want to criticise our players but I think we're also maybe a little too patient on them. Ok so we're not yet and possibly never will be a Barca, Madrid or Bayern type club but Fergie at United when building his dynasty wouldn't accept anything but the best from the start and I think we have to be a little more pushy with our expectations.

I think that's a great shout about Paulinho, the titles up for grabs this year and I think Spurs could well be the ones to steal the title this season.

 

[mammutly]

Yes! Until this season, Diego Costa was more of an enigma than a good player by any stretch of the imagination. So yes, Fred is a better striker, Longer period of consistency and greatly experienced. Costa is having a breakout season, but that is no reason to suddenly assume he is better than Fred. As for Jo, well that one beats me.

Consistency?

Fred's record in Europe :

119 starts - 41 goals

Released on a free by Lyon after contributing nothing in his last 2 years there. No other European club would go near him.

Costa's record in Europe:

63 starts - 32 goals

Spanish football federation attempting to call him up to play for them instead of Brazil.

If Fred was anything more than an average goalpoacher he'd have been starting in that Brazil team for years.

Getting way off topic now, but here you go:

<a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98952" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=98952</a>

So a thread made in December of that year, as I've already pointed out this is irrelevant to the point you made about telling everyone how bad he was 'after 4 or 5 games'.

The record only goes back that far. At the time he had played just over 600 mins and my opinion at that time was certain, but I'd expressed significant doubts before then.

I am anyway not making the same comments in relation to Fernandinho, who I do think is a decent player. Just nothing special.