Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain

[George Hannah]

Just posted this in the transfer forum but it's relevant to any discussions about Txiki this summer. Unless my numbers are off we have a serious "homegrown" problem we need to contend with in the squad planning.

It's going to be very interesting seeing how City deal with this in the upcoming transfer windows. As things currently stand we have the following homegrown players in our first team squad.

Wright, Milner, Hart, Clichy, Rodwell, and Richards.

Then from the youth teams there.

Lopes, Rekik, Boyata, and potentially Huws.

However ... if we were to lose Richards and Rodwell it leaves us in a precarious position. Rodwell and Richards are both players who let the squad down this season due to injuries/performances and they need to be replaced with players who can have more of an impact, therefore the idea of moving one of our EDS youngsters up to take their squad positions is IMO unworkable.

That means that if we replace them both with 'foreign' players we will need to name 4 young players in our first team squad. That means a squad of no more than 21 senior players. The way I see it 20 of those 21 players would be (including the English players)

Hart, Wright, Pants, Zaba, MDM, Kompany, Kolarov, Clichy, Milner, Nasri, Silva, Garcia, Fernandinho, Yaya, Jovetic, Aguero, Dzeko, Negredo, Navas, Nastasic

That leaves room for only one player to come in in place of Rodwell, Lescott, and Richards which isn't going to work. Particularly if the deals for Sagna, Fernando, and Mangala are done. Hypothetically if you add those three to the squad then our homegrown quota problem becomes much more pronounced because adding those three gives us a first team squad of 23 players (without club trained players).

This is all before the prospect of a reduced squad size due to FFP sanctions which would make the numbers above even more problematic for that competition.

Personally I'm baffled as to why i these circumstances we're pursuing Fernando quite so hard. I'm not saying he's not a good player, but we need homegrown players who are good enough to play in the first team otherwise we'll fall foul of the PL and CL squad rules.

Good post Billy.

Also to point out to the other guys that Nastasic won't be homegrown here as he arrived a year too late

this is a recurring situation - the aim as always is to get a squad that meets both PL & UEFA criteria using the same players - last year Rodwell & Nasty could play in the PL as u21s - next season they can't (if they are still here) both were on the UEFA A list though. The straightforward way to look at this (FFP sanctions permitting) is that we are allowed 17 foreign trained players in total - the other 8 need to be home grown and for the CL 4 of them need to be club trained. Currently our senior club-trained players - Richards, Boyata, Guidetti aren't worth a place -the likes of Rekik, Huws etc qualify as u21 for the CL B list. So we need 2 home growners to go along with Hart & Milner assuming the three club trained named above together with Lescott, Barry & Sinclair all exit. If we bought David Trippier we'd have another club-trained senior enabling a 22 man CL squad, otherwise it's just 21 - 17 foreign & 4 home grown (Hart, Milner +2). The Southampton lads seem to be the only candidates that could hold down a place in our team - that's the problem.
No choice!

 

[Anonymous]

Think Richard Wright will be leaving, although presumably he'll be replaced with another homegrown keeper.

I seem to recall Pellegrini saying not long ago that Rodwell will stay, so maybe Garcia will make way for Fernando?

If Wright leaves then that's two homegrown GK's we'll need to make the numbers above work.

I think Pellegrini said Rodwell would stay during January, but there were also a hell of a lot of stories that Rodwell was waiting to move to Everton on deadline day and had Fernando come in he'd have gone there. On that basis I see him as the one who goes. Also simply because it's clear that Pellegrini and the coaches don't trust Rodwell at all. Which is a shame as they certainly had high hopes for him at the start of the season.

My worry is by living on the edge of the H/G quota we become less capable of being reactive in the transfer market if we encounter a problem. Also with Nastasic's situation we will be back to having too many players next summer and even if he is sold we won't be able to replace him with anyone other than Rekik or another academy player.

 

[aguero93:20]

I believe Keiren Westwood would class as club trained, not just home grown, which would be particularly useful for the CL. I think it'd be well worth a go to try and tempt him to sit on our bench rather than Sunderland's.

Yep, he's a good enough back up keeper to use for cups as well, no reason one of the young lads can't take Wright's place also if he goes, leaves us with 3 club-trained GKs.

 

[aguero93:20]

Also to point out to the other guys that Nastasic won't be homegrown here as he arrived a year too late

Club trained for CL purposes though? 2 years between 18 and 21 under UEFA rules I believe?

 

[john@staustell]

Apparently we haven't used more than 21 players in the last 2 CL campaigns. No problem if we let a place or 2 drop as you can have an unlimited B list I understand? Huws etc.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I wouldn't be surprised if both Richards and Rodwell stayed, if only on the basis that nobody else will touch them with a bargepole because of their injury records. Not on the type of contracts they would need. And I also think Garcia will make way for Fernando. He was interviewed last night on Sky and was asked if he was staying and his answer was pretty clearly, looking at the body language, that he would love to but really wasn't sure he was wanted.

 

[Ric]

Think Richard Wright will be leaving, although presumably he'll be replaced with another homegrown keeper.

I seem to recall Pellegrini saying not long ago that Rodwell will stay, so maybe Garcia will make way for Fernando?

If Wright leaves then that's two homegrown GK's we'll need to make the numbers above work.

I think Pellegrini said Rodwell would stay during January, but there were also a hell of a lot of stories that Rodwell was waiting to move to Everton on deadline day and had Fernando come in he'd have gone there. On that basis I see him as the one who goes. Also simply because it's clear that Pellegrini and the coaches don't trust Rodwell at all. Which is a shame as they certainly had high hopes for him at the start of the season.

My worry is by living on the edge of the H/G quota we become less capable of being reactive in the transfer market if we encounter a problem. Also with Nastasic's situation we will be back to having too many players next summer and even if he is sold we won't be able to replace him with anyone other than Rekik or another academy player.

Pellegrini's comments about Rodwell were in March, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manuel-pellegrini-insists-jack-rodwell-6833645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ll-6833645</a>

 

[Anonymous]

Apparently we haven't used more than 21 players in the last 2 CL campaigns. No problem if we let a place or 2 drop as you can have an unlimited B list I understand? Huws etc.

Yes but that's not ideal. I'm looking at our squad getting stronger next season in the CL ... not weaker. On that basis we need players to come in for Lescott, Richards, and Rodwell who can make an impact in the first team either at PL or at CL level. The three mentioned (Fernando, Sagna, Mangala) may well do that, but that will mean as I have pointed out, that we won't be in a position to sign anyone unless a foreign player first leaves the squad. To place yourself at the limit of the squad rules with regards homegrown players is IMO a risky game to play.

Now I'm not advocating in particular that we sign any or all of these players, however IMO these are the players who could merit a place in our squad who are homegrown. Shaw, Chambers, Schneiderlin, Ben Davies, Ross Barkley, and Stephen Caulker.

 

[TBooksbluearmy]

The club should be looking at the 2 Southampton players, Adam Llanana and Luke Shaw a joint bid of about £60m maybe enough to secure both their signings over Liverpool and the rags. We need to bring in more English players, and they are about the only ones who fit the bill at the moment. Hopefully both Ferran Soriano & Txiki Begiristain can make this happen over the coming months. With these 2 players from Southampton in our squad we could maintain a challenge on 4 fronts with a another quality CB probably Matt Hummels from Borussia Dortmund would be my choice.

 

[Anonymous]

Think Richard Wright will be leaving, although presumably he'll be replaced with another homegrown keeper.

I seem to recall Pellegrini saying not long ago that Rodwell will stay, so maybe Garcia will make way for Fernando?

If Wright leaves then that's two homegrown GK's we'll need to make the numbers above work.

I think Pellegrini said Rodwell would stay during January, but there were also a hell of a lot of stories that Rodwell was waiting to move to Everton on deadline day and had Fernando come in he'd have gone there. On that basis I see him as the one who goes. Also simply because it's clear that Pellegrini and the coaches don't trust Rodwell at all. Which is a shame as they certainly had high hopes for him at the start of the season.

My worry is by living on the edge of the H/G quota we become less capable of being reactive in the transfer market if we encounter a problem. Also with Nastasic's situation we will be back to having too many players next summer and even if he is sold we won't be able to replace him with anyone other than Rekik or another academy player.

Pellegrini's comments about Rodwell were in March, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him stay:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manuel-pellegrini-insists-jack-rodwell-6833645" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ll-6833645</a>

That's an even more problematic scenario IMO. Rodwell's not kicked a ball whether fit or injured. So we're going to sell Garcia who's just finding his feet in the PL and in Pellegrini's system, replace him with another foreign player, but leave the sick note in the squad thus running the risk again of being a body light all season in a crucial position. This time with the added worry that Yaya will go to the ACON.