Frank De Boer (new boss?)

[Blue Haze]

Interesting option. There seem to be a few young ex-Barca managers potentially available.

Rijkaard. that's it, isn't it?

Sorry, should have said 'ex-Barca players who are now managers'

Was thinking of Laudrup

 

[Skashion]

Another day, another relatively obscure manager touted as a replacement for a man who is far more proven.

But perhaps a more obvious fit in terms of footballing culture with the people now overseeing the football and day-to-day business operations of the club.

It concerns me that Soriano and Txiki might have overrated just how much they contributed to the Barcelona project. The Barcelona project was rolling way before they came to it. Most of the players, including the core players, that became Guardiola's Barcelona were there before they were. Xavi has been at Barcelona since he was 11. Iniesta likewise or younger. Messi there since 2000. La Masia has been rolling out players moulded essentially in Tika Taka since Cruyff was there as Tiki-taka is a development of Total Football.

I'm concerned that Soriano and Txiki might be trying to run before they can walk with City. City aren't even at the point Barcelona were at when Cruyff was there and for them to pick a manager based on a culture and a youth system that does not yet exist and which they have no experience of building from the ground up, smacks of dangerous overconfidence to me. They came to Barcelona half way through, in fact, three quarters of the way through really. If they do another Guardiola job and pick another nobody who takes a club to greatness, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and that Soriano and Txiki are 'special ones'. However, until then, I think they might be letting their egos run away with them should they choose to get rid of Mancini and appoint a lesser qualified candidate.

 

[petrusha]

Another day, another relatively obscure manager touted as a replacement for a man who is far more proven.

But perhaps a more obvious fit in terms of footballing culture with the people now overseeing the football and day-to-day business operations of the club.

It concerns me that Soriano and Txiki might have overrated just how much they contributed to the Barcelona project. The Barcelona project was rolling way before they came to it. Most of the players, including the core players, that became Guardiola's Barcelona were there before they were. Xavi has been at Barcelona since he was 11. Iniesta likewise or younger. Messi there since 2000. La Masia has been rolling out players moulded essentially in Tika Taka since Cruyff was there as Tiki-taka is a development of Total Football.

I'm concerned that Soriano and Txiki might be trying to run before they can walk with City. City aren't even at the point Barcelona were at when Cruyff was there and for them to pick a manager based on a culture and a youth system that does not yet exist and which they have no experience of building from the ground up. They came to Barcelona half way through, in fact, three quarters of the way through really. If they do another Guardiola job and pick another nobody who takes a club to greatness, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and that Soriano and Txiki are 'special ones'. However, until then, I think they might be letting their egos run away with them should they choose to get rid of Mancini and appoint a lesser qualified candidate.

In my opinion, you underestimate the job they did at the Camp Nou. Ferran and Txiki came to Barca in 2003, five years before Guardiola was appointed. At that point, Barca had just finished fifth in La Liga, had an imbalanced squad full of overpaid and underachieving players and the youth policy was regarded as having stalled (players were versed in the system but weren't coming through into the senior ranks in any numbers). The club had lost its way over the previous few seasons.

The Laporta regime of which they were a key part did restructure the club quite considerably with a view to reintroducing the Cruyff principles, and Cruyff had backed the Laporta regime in the presidential elections precisely because they were pledging to re-implement his philosophy at the club. The situation Guardiola inherited in 2008 was so propitious in significant measure owing to the work that Begiristain had done in the previous five years. Guardiola himself acknowledges this.

There's no point in appointing someone like Begiristain if you aren't going to back him to oversee the football side of the club in the way he sees fit, and rightly or wrongly the board have decided to go down that route. (I think in five years time, we'll be glad they did, but this is another debate). Begiristain is on record as saying, before he came to City, that he needs a manager of the first team who's on board with his way of doing things. I'm not sure whether Roberto is that person, but if Begiristain is prepared to give it a go next season with Roberto then that's fine by me. If not, then Begiristain was a driving force behind two managerial appointments at Barca, neither of which was at all obvious at the time and both of which proved inspired; I'd give him the chance to try and repeat the trick here.

There was a report last week that de Boer had been recommended to Txiki by Johann Cruyff, who worked with him for a spell during Cruyff's short-lived tenure as technical director of Ajax in 2011. Begiristain as a player was one of Cruyff's first signings at Barca and remained a fixture in the "Dream Team" for seven seasons (he averaged 32 league appearances out of 38 per campaign). I suspect that a glowing reference from Cruyff will count for quite a lot with Txiki.

EDIT - Just to add, I enjoyed your post. I do appreciate that it's possible quite legitimately to take a different view of how much faith you want to place in Txiki. I have a lot, but I do see that questions can be raised - as they can with Guardiola - as to how he'll get on outside the Barca environment. It may be as well that Txiki will decide to go with Mancini for another year and try to make that relationship work. If that's what happens, then that could be what's for the best, but it'll rely on give and take on both sides.

 

[bapi]

4 or 5 different sources said all signings were Mancini's however some people still don't believe it... Ffs he even spent money on Savic and Kolarov!!!

 

[Skashion]

In my opinion, you underestimate the job they did at the Camp Nou. Ferran and Txiki came to Barca in 2003, five years before Guardiola was appointed. At that point, Barca had just finished fifth in La Liga, had an imbalanced squad full of overpaid and underachieving players and the youth policy was regarded as having stalled (players were versed in the system but weren't coming through into the senior ranks in any numbers). The club had lost its way over the previous few seasons.

The Laporta regime of which they were a key part did restructure the club quite considerably with a view to reintroducing the Cruyff principles, and Cruyff had backed the Laporta regime in the presidential elections precisely because they were pledging to re-implement his philosophy at the club. The situation Guardiola inherited in 2008 was so propitious in significant measure owing to the work that Begiristain had done in the previous five years. Guardiola himself acknowledges this.

There's no point in appointing someone like Begiristain if you aren't going to back him to oversee the football side of the club in the way he sees fit, and rightly or wrongly the board have decided to go down that route. (I think in five years time, we'll be glad they did, but this is another debate). Begiristain is on record as saying, before he came to City, that he needs a manager of the first team who's on board with his way of doing things. I'm not sure whether Roberto is that person, but if Begiristain is prepared to give it a go next season with Roberto then that's fine by me. If not, then Begiristain was a driving force behind two managerial appointments at Barca, neither of which was at all obvious at the time and both of which proved inspired; I'd give him the chance to try and repeat the trick here.

There was a report last week that de Boer had been recommended to Txiki by Johann Cruyff, who worked with him for a spell during Cruyff's short-lived tenure as technical director of Ajax in 2011. Begiristain as a player was one of Cruyff's first signings at Barca and remained a fixture in the "Dream Team" for seven seasons (he averaged 32 league appearances out of 38 per campaign). I suspect that a glowing reference from Cruyff will count for quite a lot with Txiki.

Possibly I do, Possibly you overestimate it. Possibly the truth is somewhere in the middle. As always though, I respect the intellectual and knowledgeable nature of your posts.

I don't blame Soriano and Txiki in the slightest. They've been chosen to do a job, they're trying to do it, but to my mind the environment does not yet exist. I back completely the Barcelona way of doing things but as I say it took at least a decade to build, a decade of building a youth system designed around a specific style of football, before you can pull off the move of choosing the manager who fits the system. The system comes first, especially if you're not already a successful club. Even if you implement a brilliant youth system, if you can't keep hold of your best talents because your club isn't big enough, it's no good. Success first, then a long-term youth policy; a culture, then success with with your youth players rooted in that culture. I think that's how it has to go. We're not even close to finishing stage one as far as I'm concerned. We seem to be trying to run multiple stages concurrently, that might be possible, but as I see it, you can only compact it that way. You can't skip a stage, and to be honest, that's what I believe appointing a manager to fit a system that does not exist would be doing.

 

[petrusha]

He also said that Mario was on £170,000 a week based on a "rock solid source". Presumably one of the car park attendants.

He's full of shit.

IIRC, City were briefing the press (not just Mullock) that Mario's appeal related to a fine of £340K. The weekly wage inference was drawn because the rules permit a maximum fine of two weeks' wages.

A couple of people I know and have time for suggest that Mullock is respected generally and is also well sourced at City. That doesn't mean he always gets it right, but I personally will give more credence to what he says than I will to the words of some of his colleagues.

 

[petrusha]

Possibly I do, Possibly you overestimate it. Possibly the truth is somewhere in the middle. As always though, I respect the intellectual and knowledgeable nature of your posts.

I don't blame Soriano and Txiki in the slightest. They've been chosen to do a job, they're trying to do it, but to my mind the environment does not yet exist. I back completely the Barcelona way of doing things but as I say it took at least a decade to build, a decade of building a youth system designed around a specific style of football, before you can pull off the move of choosing the manager who fits the system. The system comes first, especially if you're not already a successful club. Even if you implement a brilliant youth system, if you can't keep hold of your best talents because your club isn't big enough, it's no good. Success first, then a long-term youth policy; a culture, then success with with your youth players rooted in that culture. I think that's how it has to go. We're not even close to finishing stage one as far as I'm concerned. We seem to be trying to run multiple stages concurrently, that might be possible, but as I see it, you can only compact it that way. You can't skip a stage, and to be honest, that's what I believe appointing a manager to fit a system that does not exist would be doing.

You're right that I may be overestimating it and that the truth is most likely somewhere in the middle of the respective positions we're taking. I suppose what Ferran and Txiki would say is that if they're imposing a culture on the organisation, it needs to come from the top down. Interesting issue, though.

And I do wonder whether Khaldoon may attempt to broker a compromise so that the Barca two and Roberto at least give it a proper go at working together. Anyway, the decision won't be made until the summer, so let's hope that it's taken against a backdrop of finishing a comfortable second and with the FA Cupnestling back in our trophy cabinet. :)

 

[Skashion]

You're right that I may be overestimating it and that the truth is most likely somewhere in the middle of the respective positions we're taking. I suppose what Ferran and Txiki would say is that if they're imposing a culture on the organisation, it needs to come from the top down. Interesting issue, though.

And I do wonder whether Khaldoon may attempt to broker a compromise so that the Barca two and Roberto at least give it a proper go at working together. Anyway, the decision won't be made until the summer, so let's hope that it's taken against a backdrop of finishing a comfortable second and with the FA Cupnestling back in our trophy cabinet. :)

I'd be very happy to see you proved right though. :-)

I'd like to hope so. To me it would be a positive indicator of patience and that they will make allowances for the growing pains of the project.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

He also said that Mario was on £170,000 a week based on a "rock solid source". Presumably one of the car park attendants.

He's full of shit.

IIRC, City were briefing the press (not just Mullock) that Mario's appeal related to a fine of £340K. The weekly wage inference was drawn because the rules permit a maximum fine of two weeks' wages.

A couple of people I know and have time for suggest that Mullock is respected generally and is also well sourced at City. That doesn't mean he always gets it right, but I personally will give more credence to what he says than I will to the words of some of his colleagues.

As I recall the club informally briefed the sum of £240K, which certainly seems to make more sense. I agree about the two weeks limit, though, which is only breached on very rare occasions.

He may be better sourced, but it annoyed me that he came on here (which in itself, I acknowledge deserves some credit) and responded in the typical tabloid fashion of hiding behind his source.

The sum of £170k pw bears little logical scrutiny imo. Balotelli was 19 when he signed for us and was hardly being chased down by every club in Europe. It is difficult to imagine him commanding a higher wage than Silva was on at the time. It is this willingness to accept what they are told, by people with an agenda, that annoys me about journalists. If, as you say, he has a better knowledge of the club, and as others say - he supports the club, then you would imagine he would temper his output accordingly to at least resemble the facts as he reasonably believed them to be.

I realise he has a job to do, but it is naive in the extreme to expect journalists not to allow their personal feelings for a club to colour their professional output. Fuck me, we see that all the time from those that wish to see us fail: Lawton, Glanville etc... I would have hoped that someone who claims to be a City fan, especially in a publication that has serious form for sneering at our club, would have questioned putting a claim in his article which was so apparently false, which served to reinforce the perception that we pay higher wages than we do. We've had to put up with that crap since September 1st 2008, which Mullock, if he is the City fan he claims, will be all too aware.

 

[waspish]

Another day, another relatively obscure manager touted as a replacement for a man who is far more proven.

But perhaps a more obvious fit in terms of footballing culture with the people now overseeing the football and day-to-day business operations of the club.

It concerns me that Soriano and Txiki might have overrated just how much they contributed to the Barcelona project. The Barcelona project was rolling way before they came to it. Most of the players, including the core players, that became Guardiola's Barcelona were there before they were. Xavi has been at Barcelona since he was 11. Iniesta likewise or younger. Messi there since 2000. La Masia has been rolling out players moulded essentially in Tika Taka since Cruyff was there as Tiki-taka is a development of Total Football.

I'm concerned that Soriano and Txiki might be trying to run before they can walk with City. City aren't even at the point Barcelona were at when Cruyff was there and for them to pick a manager based on a culture and a youth system that does not yet exist and which they have no experience of building from the ground up, smacks of dangerous overconfidence to me. They came to Barcelona half way through, in fact, three quarters of the way through really. If they do another Guardiola job and pick another nobody who takes a club to greatness, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and that Soriano and Txiki are 'special ones'. However, until then, I think they might be letting their egos run away with them should they choose to get rid of Mancini and appoint a lesser qualified candidate.

Spot on and my feelings to..