I agree with this point of view especially with us trying to run our first team with a system that doesn't exist yet but I have the optimism of petrusha..or at least I'm trying to convince myself that it can work..Skashion said:Possibly I do, Possibly you overestimate it. Possibly the truth is somewhere in the middle. As always though, I respect the intellectual and knowledgeable nature of your posts.petrusha said:In my opinion, you underestimate the job they did at the Camp Nou. Ferran and Txiki came to Barca in 2003, five years before Guardiola was appointed. At that point, Barca had just finished fifth in La Liga, had an imbalanced squad full of overpaid and underachieving players and the youth policy was regarded as having stalled (players were versed in the system but weren't coming through into the senior ranks in any numbers). The club had lost its way over the previous few seasons.
The Laporta regime of which they were a key part did restructure the club quite considerably with a view to reintroducing the Cruyff principles, and Cruyff had backed the Laporta regime in the presidential elections precisely because they were pledging to re-implement his philosophy at the club. The situation Guardiola inherited in 2008 was so propitious in significant measure owing to the work that Begiristain had done in the previous five years. Guardiola himself acknowledges this.
There's no point in appointing someone like Begiristain if you aren't going to back him to oversee the football side of the club in the way he sees fit, and rightly or wrongly the board have decided to go down that route. (I think in five years time, we'll be glad they did, but this is another debate). Begiristain is on record as saying, before he came to City, that he needs a manager of the first team who's on board with his way of doing things. I'm not sure whether Roberto is that person, but if Begiristain is prepared to give it a go next season with Roberto then that's fine by me. If not, then Begiristain was a driving force behind two managerial appointments at Barca, neither of which was at all obvious at the time and both of which proved inspired; I'd give him the chance to try and repeat the trick here.
There was a report last week that de Boer had been recommended to Txiki by Johann Cruyff, who worked with him for a spell during Cruyff's short-lived tenure as technical director of Ajax in 2011. Begiristain as a player was one of Cruyff's first signings at Barca and remained a fixture in the "Dream Team" for seven seasons (he averaged 32 league appearances out of 38 per campaign). I suspect that a glowing reference from Cruyff will count for quite a lot with Txiki.
I don't blame Soriano and Txiki in the slightest. They've been chosen to do a job, they're trying to do it, but to my mind the environment does not yet exist. I back completely the Barcelona way of doing things but as I say it took at least a decade to build, a decade of building a youth system designed around a specific style of football, before you can pull off the move of choosing the manager who fits the system. The system comes first, especially if you're not already a successful club. Even if you implement a brilliant youth system, if you can't keep hold of your best talents because your club isn't big enough, it's no good. Success first, then a long-term youth policy; a culture, then success with with your youth players rooted in that culture. I think that's how it has to go. We're not even close to finishing stage one as far as I'm concerned. We seem to be trying to run multiple stages concurrently, that might be possible, but as I see it, you can only compact it that way. You can't skip a stage, and to be honest, that's what I believe appointing a manager to fit a system that does not exist would be doing.
The cookie monster said:Mourinho
Guardiola
Klopp
Ancelloti
Pellegrini
Simone
Martinez
Laudrup
Koeman
Prandelli
And today its De Boer's turn.
What I've learnt in the last four, nearly five, years is that stories with no quotes or named sources are just made up.FantasyIreland said:By Simon Mullock
Comments
De Boer war: Ajax coach emerges as favourite to replace Roberto Mancini as Manchester City boss
30 Mar 2013 22:31
Italian faces an end of season review at the Etihad with directors Soriano and Begiristain said to favour a move for the former Barcelona star
Frank de Boer has emerged as the front runner to replace Roberto Mancini at Manchester City.
Mancini will shortly face an end-of-season review to determine whether he is the man to take the Blues forward.
And De Boer, the 42-year-old Ajax coach, will be targeted by the Blues chief executive Ferran Soriano and sporting director Txiki Begiristain, if they decide Mancini should quit.
De Boer is looking to lead Ajax to a hat-trick of Dutch titles since taking over at the club he graced as a player in 2010. But he is frustrated that the Amsterdam giants have become a selling club, to the tune of £70million in recent times.
Luis Suarez, Jan Vertonghen, Gregory van der Wiel, Thomas Vermaelen and Vurnon Anita have departed, and Christian Eriksen is set to leave this summer. Ajax have said that they want to tie De Boer to a new long-term contract, but the Dutchman has been frustrated by the lack of developments in that area.
Soriano and Begiristain have not been convinced by Mancini. City’s defence of the Premier League title has been poor and they finished behind Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund and Ajax in their Champions League group, with the Dutch club winning 3-1 in Amsterdam and drawing 2-2 at the Etihad.
But Mancini’s fate will depend on whether he can work with the two Spaniards after they were brought in to develop City in the same way that they made Barcelona the best club in Europe.
De Boer comes from the same footballing school as Johan Cruyff, who modelled the Barca style taken up so brilliantly by Pep Guardiola.
City were expected to look for a big name if they decided to replace Mancini, who has alienated the hierarchy at the club with constant claims that he had little influence on transfer business last summer.
De Boer, who spent four years as a player at Barca, is a multi-millionaire, so money will not be his main motivation when he decides his future. He wants a project that will enable him to challenge for the top honours in Europe.
If Mancini departs the Etihad, De Boer would be the perfect fit
Savic looked a different player against England. Confident and strong on the ball.bapi said:4 or 5 different sources said all signings were Mancini's however some people still don't believe it... Ffs he even spent money on Savic and Kolarov!!!
but isn't all of this counterproductivetolmie's hairdoo said:Mullock is one of the very few who gets given official steers from the club.
Mullock is as big a blue as anyone on here, and because of that, City and people working at the club make sure he does get his fair share.
His story needs to be treated seriously in that context.
I have not heard mentioned De Boer, but Mancini already has one foot out of the door.
Mancini is fighting for his job and has already made his own contingency plans.
Spent 16M on Kolarov and he's on 110k! Savic looks better after 7 months with Fiorentina.Marvin said:Savic looked a different player against England. Confident and strong on the ball.bapi said:4 or 5 different sources said all signings were Mancini's however some people still don't believe it... Ffs he even spent money on Savic and Kolarov!!!
Kolarov is OK too. How many duds has Ferguson bought over the years.
Sometimes you buy players, it doesn't work out and they go elsewhere and are world-beaters eg Poborsky and Forlan
Mancini wasn't hired by Soriano/Txiki and these Spaniards will spend next 4 or 5 years at City. At least.<br /><br />-- Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:48 am --<br /><br />Btw Duncan Castles will reveal more very soon...squirtyflower said:but isn't all of this counterproductivetolmie's hairdoo said:Mullock is one of the very few who gets given official steers from the club.
Mullock is as big a blue as anyone on here, and because of that, City and people working at the club make sure he does get his fair share.
His story needs to be treated seriously in that context.
I have not heard mentioned De Boer, but Mancini already has one foot out of the door.
Mancini is fighting for his job and has already made his own contingency plans.
if the overwhelming direction of the club is people forever looking over their shoulders then how on earth can they be looking forward?