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Octavian said:
England just means “Land of the Angles”. English is just how Anglo Saxons started to define themselves, there’s not really a difference, it’s just how language evolved through time.

It is true what you say about the mainland Europe, I saw something online that said English people are more closely linked to Frisian people than we are some areas of Wales. No idea if that’s specifically true but it’s interesting and we definitely do share a lot of DNA from areas where Germanic tribes used to be, across the mainland.

Culturally is important too and I want us to retain our culture. I have no problem having other cultures in my area, I live in Oldham and there’s a good mix, but my only point that it’s reasonable to want ours to be the most prominent one, which it is.

A couple of my pals have retired and now live on the Costa Del Sol, I find what Brits have done over there a little unfair in some areas and a native Spaniard told me as much last time I visited my mate.

Do you think the Spanish fella is justified in being pissed off at Brits there?
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The key point is that people's genetic origin is irrelevant, it's a cultural thing.

We live in a country that has evolved culturally to what it is now and it is forever changing and evolving, and it is only natural to not want it to become too alien too quickly. However we have absorbed wave after wave of immigrants that have all learned to integrate with the existing population to a lesser or greater extent. Yet most have still retained elements of their imported culture that we don't appear to have a problem with, and some elements of that imported culture have become mainstream in English life, such as our taste for Indian, Italian, Chinese and many other cuisines. There's absolutely no reason why we can't successfully absorb another wave of immigrants of which many will absorb our culture and some of their's will rub off on us.

Using nativeness (if that's a word) and lineage as a measure is irrelevant, pointless and counterproductive, and has never been part of how this country has evolved over the centuries (until Brexit).
 
west didsblue said:
The key point is that people's genetic origin is irrelevant, it's a cultural thing.

We live in a country that has evolved culturally to what it is now and it is forever changing and evolving, and it is only natural to not want it to become too alien too quickly. However we have absorbed wave after wave of immigrants that have all learned to integrate with the existing population to a lesser or greater extent. Yet most have still retained elements of their imported culture that we don't appear to have a problem with, and some elements of that imported culture have become mainstream in English life, such as our taste for Indian, Italian, Chinese and many other cuisines. There's absolutely no reason why we can't successfully absorb another wave of immigrants of which many will absorb our culture and some of their's will rub off on us.

Using nativeness (if that's a word) and lineage as a measure is irrelevant, pointless and counterproductive, and has never been part of how this country has evolved over the centuries (until Brexit).
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Mass immigration is a recent phenomenon in my lifetime, never mind in the history of the country. There will be more immigration post Brexit than when I was a lad.

Nevertheless I agree with a chunk of what you say, importing parts of other cultures and people is great. I just don’t think, say for example, we should be allowing immigration from India to be that high that there are more Indians in the country than English people and their culture becomes the most dominant.

I think it’s reasonable to not want that to happen but be grateful and pleased that we do have Indians here and their culture.

I am surprised I’ve got opposition to that view but hey ho everyone has an opinion.

Lineage is important, it’s good to trace where you’ve come from and what your ancestors did… whilst retaining some of their culture and identity. This happens all over the world and I’m fascinated how tribes in Africa have been behaving similarly for thousands of years.
 
Octavian said:
Why would that be acceptable in any form of normal conversation?
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I dunno, why not ask the bloke who brought this whole fucking nonsense up?

That’s you, by the way.

I reckon I can trace back 150 years of English lineage on on my fathers side. Is this enough to move to Oldham? I don't want to be seen driving up the non-native share of the population. Will you want documents as proof?
 
BobKowalski said:
I dunno, why not ask the bloke who brought this whole fucking nonsense up?

That’s you, by the way.

I reckon I can trace back 150 years of English lineage on on my fathers side. Is this enough to move to Oldham? I don't want to be seen driving up the non-native share of the population. Will you want documents as proof?
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Why are you so rude?

I didn’t bring it up, the other fella sent the link to the article and said it was racist.

I’ve said repeatedly times I welcome immigration, just that it’s reasonable to not want to be a minority in the area you’re native too.
 
Octavian said:
Why are you so rude?

I didn’t bring it up, the other fella sent the link to the article and said it was racist.

I’ve said repeatedly times I welcome immigration, just that it’s reasonable to not want to be a minority in the area you’re native too.
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In order.

It‘s a gift.

It was.

I rest my case.
 
Octavian said:
Mass immigration is a recent phenomenon in my lifetime, never mind in the history of the country. There will be more immigration post Brexit than when I was a lad.

Nevertheless I agree with a chunk of what you say, importing parts of other cultures and people is great. I just don’t think, say for example, we should be allowing immigration from India to be that high that there are more Indians in the country than English people and their culture becomes the most dominant.

I think it’s reasonable to not want that to happen but be grateful and pleased that we do have Indians here and their culture.

I am surprised I’ve got opposition to that view but hey ho everyone has an opinion.

Lineage is important, it’s good to trace where you’ve come from and what your ancestors did… whilst retaining some of their culture and identity. This happens all over the world and I’m fascinated how tribes in Africa have been behaving similarly for thousands of years.
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@bluethrunthru has beaten me to it.
Mass immigration has happened for centuries not just in recent years, and the characteristics of some areas have often changed due to immigration - usually the same poorer areas time after time. Cheetham Hill for example has been Irish, Jewish and is now predominantly Indian/Pakistani. Moss Side has been largely Caribbean but the African population has now grown there significantly. Rusholme is more Middle Eastern than South Asian these days etc. Then as those communities assimilate and become more successful they spread out further and could end up being your neighbours, and by then they usually have adopted enough of the host culture to fit in fine with the majority, the exceptions being people who are fixated on an imaginary past that never existed. Worrying about being swamped with migrants from one country is foolish because history shows that every time there has been mass immigration, long term the country has benefitted.
 
west didsblue said:
@bluethrunthru has beaten me to it.
Mass immigration has happened for centuries not just in recent years, and the characteristics of some areas have often changed due to immigration - usually the same poorer areas time after time. Cheetham Hill for example has been Irish, Jewish and is now predominantly Indian/Pakistani. Moss Side has been largely Caribbean but the African population has now grown there significantly. Rusholme is more Middle Eastern than South Asian these days etc. Then as those communities assimilate and become more successful they spread out further and could end up being your neighbours, and by then they usually have adopted enough of the host culture to fit in fine with the majority, the exceptions being people who are fixated on an imaginary past that never existed. Worrying about being swamped with migrants from one country is foolish because history shows that every time there has been mass immigration, long term the country has benefitted.
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Saying mass immigration has always happened just isn’t true. It’s happened in waves certainly but the scale of those arriving from the 1990s onwards had never been done, not since invasions in pre medieval times.

I live in Oldham, I already have Pakistani neighbours and I get on with them fine. I just wouldn’t want the English population of Oldham to sink to minority status. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

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