General Election - 4th July 2024

[Brewster's millions]

I wonder if you might be a touch biased?

I agree Starmer was wobbly and I just don't think this kind of debate suits him. If he was in court, Sunak would be in prison for contempt by now, and even in Parliament, the speaker wouldn't let him talk over everyone constantly.

Yet, in that first debate, which was pretty similar, the public said Starmer won by a lot in most polls, with YouGov almost even. Tonight, you think he was dreadful, and falling apart, but again YouGov have it as pretty even.

Perhaps most people are a bit more thoughtful, and aren't as easily swayed by who shouts the loudest.

Sunak attempting to talk over Starmer probably is counterproductive because it risks turning people off the debate, and obviously Sunak needs people to be engaged if he’s to make an impact.

But I still think Starmer was really very poor tonight and when he’s challenged on certain issues he genuinely struggles. Again, the fact that he tried to fall back on this working class stuff and Sunak’s wealth tells you how much he was struggling. I would rather that sort of stuff was left out of politics.

As for the style of debate, I don’t see that as a relevant point. It is what it is and personally I place some value on being able to think on your feet.

 

[Vic]

I’m not interested in the betting odds, because I’ve watched it with my own eyes and it’s very clear that Starmer was absolutely dreadful tonight.

I'm not sure if you're an optimist or need an optometrist.

 

[blueparrot]

I didn’t watch this one, feel that I’ve seen enough from both of them.

All I can say is thank god we didn’t do TV debates back in Attlee’s day.

Don’t think many people watch them, and those that do already know what their vote will be. Thats why opinion polls barely shift after them.

 

[bluenova]

Sunak attempting to talk over Starmer probably is counterproductive because it risks turning people off the debate, and obviously Sunak needs people to be engaged if he’s to make an impact.

But I still think Starmer was really very poor tonight and when he’s challenged on certain issues he genuinely struggles. Again, the fact that he tried to fall back on this working class stuff and Sunak’s wealth tells you how much he was struggling. I would rather that sort of stuff was left out of politics.

As for the style of debate, I don’t see that as a relevant point. It is what it is and personally I place some value on being able to think on your feet.

And through that struggle, the public thought Starmer came across as more trustworthy, likeable, in touch, and Prime Ministerial. That last one was the only one that was even close, and unsurprisingly the actual PM usually does well in those polls.

 

[west didsblue]

Being able to blatantly lie with a straight face certainly helps in these debates.

 

[Kinkybyname]

I wonder if you might be a touch biased?

I agree Starmer was wobbly and I just don't think this kind of debate suits him. If he was in court, Sunak would be in prison for contempt by now, and even in Parliament, the speaker wouldn't let him talk over everyone constantly.

Yet, in that first debate, which was pretty similar, the public said Starmer won by a lot in most polls, with YouGov almost even. Tonight, you think he was dreadful, and falling apart, but again YouGov have it as pretty even.

Perhaps most people are a bit more thoughtful, and aren't as easily swayed by who shouts the loudest.

ah - in the court of public opinion, City are bang to rights

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

ah - in the court of public opinion, City are bang to rights

An election is a courting of public opinion, unlike a closed tribunal.

 

[bluenova]

ah - in the court of public opinion, City are bang to rights

That's ignorance though. These are people who actually watched an event and are commenting :)

 

[HelloCity]

Classic BBC

 

[Kinkybyname]

An election is a courting of public opinion, unlike a closed tribunal.

this is true, my comment was merely a comment on YouGov summary

 

[Mike N]

Classic BBC

View attachment 123514

Haven’t seen the debate but the question about ‘likeability’ made me laugh. No way 33% said Sunak is likeable. Fred West or Jimmy Saville would get better numbers than Sunak!

 

[Don Karleone]

The problem is that the clip in the twitter link you're showing isn't the one that's being shared.

There's a shorter one which starts with the bit about removing people from Bangladesh, then chops in part of the earlier interview to say he knows how to do it. It's deliberately edited, with the order of his words changed, and any context of it being about illegal immigration/failed asylum claims being taken out.

If it was that full clip, I'd agree, and suggest that there's no need to be so bullish with the response.

Given that it deliberately mixes up the order of what he's saying, and clips other parts, it would be pretty foolish to start apologising.

Add it to Ashworth's comments yesterday. Both mentioned Bangladesh. It isn't an accident.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Add it to Ashworth's comments yesterday. Both mentioned Bangladesh. It isn't an accident.

Listening to LBC, Iain Dale was making a big thing of this and although I missed a lot of it, Dale had to read out a statement that said that the video he had watched had been edited and taken completely out of context. Dale quickly went to extended adverts and, while I was driving back, never came back on.

Said to me that he’d watched the edited version and was now questioning what the editors had allowed him to put forward as an argument.

 

[Don Karleone]

Listening to LBC, Iain Dale was making a big thing of this and although I missed a lot of it, Dale had to read out a statement that said that the video he had watched had been edited and taken completely out of context. Dale quickly went to extended adverts and, while I was driving back, never came back on.

Said to me that he’d watched the edited version and was now questioning what the editors had allowed him to put forward as an argument.

The words still came out his mouth and Ashworth's. There was no reason to mention Bangladesh.

 

[Chris in London]

Anyone who does not think after 6 months in office Labour will come out with things are far worse than we thought and there will be significant tax rises is living in cloud cuckoo land!

Project fear

Remember that?

 

[Chris in London]

Can’t remember.

If I was going to take a guess…Eamonn Holmes!

Julian Malins KC

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Julian Malins KC

KC ****.

 

[Eccles Blue]

Can anyone else hear a woman shouting in the background on this PM debate?

Protestors outside the hall apparently.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Protestors outside the hall apparently.

Yes, picked up on that later. Knew it was in Nottingham but didn’t realise it was at NTU. Know the Newton and Arkwright buildings well.

 

[law74]

But I still think Starmer was really very poor tonight and when he’s challenged on certain issues he genuinely struggles. Again, the fact that he tried to fall back on this working class stuff and Sunak’s wealth tells you how much he was struggling. I would rather that sort of stuff was left out of politics.

As for the style of debate, I don’t see that as a relevant point. It is what it is and personally I place some value on being able to think on your feet.

When most of the electorate realise that sunak is totally out of touch with the real life consequences of 14 years of self-servatives government, it is very relevant in this election, and you don't rise through the legal profession to head the CPS without being able to think on your feet.
Here's looking forward to tomorrow week with a Labour government and hopefully a Lib-dems opposition