General Election - 4th July 2024

[Vic]

One should always be dubious of anyone who states which taxes they won't raise but don't guarantee anything about the others. We can only hope it's those with the deepest pockets that pay the most.

Personally I'm presuming anyone above average wages will get something taken. That would be the same for whoever got in. Most people just want a bit of fairness.

Lots of stuff needs sorting, people need to be adult about it.

All this "what taxes will you raise?" stuff is pointless. Did Johnson say in 2019 he was going to freeze tax thresholds? A brilliant idea, if it means they can later offer a "cut" in National Insurance. The 2019 manifesto promised reforming social care, improving digital and physical infrastructure, and delivering 'world class' public services!

It probably goes back primarily to 1979 and Labour saying the Tories planned to double VAT. Denied by Thatcher, and of course they only nearly doubled VAT.

 

[Vic]

Do you know how the Labour Party waste public money?:

Flagship free school that cost £35m closes due to lack of pupils

Government funded Parkfield, in Dorset, after ‘unbelievable’ lack of due diligence, says expert

www.theguardian.com

Oh, wait, it was the Tories. And it's only the odd 35 million notes down the khazi.

It's been a massive failure. Schools opened in competition with local authority schools with falling rolls, backdoor selection (by parental interview not the kids), some mad free school philosophies (one had the pupils chant "Aspire, aspire, aspire" at assembly) while the council can't get people to open schools where they are needed (and aren't allowed to open their own).

 

[hilts]

All this "what taxes will you raise?" stuff is pointless. Did Johnson say in 2019 he was going to freeze tax thresholds? A brilliant idea, if it means they can later offer a "cut" in National Insurance. The 2019 manifesto promised reforming social care, improving digital and physical infrastructure, and delivering 'world class' public services!

It probably goes back primarily to 1979 and Labour saying the Tories planned to double VAT. Denied by Thatcher, and of course they only nearly doubled VAT.

Vic Labour are getting in, 99% of people on here agree the Tories have been dog shit, please don't feel the need to deflect onto that fucker Johnson. I said I expect some taxes to go up and I hope its done fairly with the poorest not being affected.

That is all.

 

[bluethrunthru]

so there you have it - a vote for Labour will get you a Govt run by the Gambling Commission - does not-so-Cleverly realise what words are tumbling out of his mouth?

 

[bluethrunthru]

the daily Tory disaster is in

 

[law74]

the daily Tory disaster is in

Just imagine how many would be under investigation if Sunak had informed his MP's

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Just imagine how many would be under investigation if Sunak had informed his MP's

Just shows you that MPs are only part of the problem, the whole party is rotten to the core. It needs somebody to basically burn it down and start again if they have any hope of not getting eventually permanently obliterated. Think of all the older Tories out there who would never vote Labour because of the state of the country pre-Thatcher. Now realise that's going to be how pensioners will feel about the Conservatives in 30 years time. All the current pensioners propping up the Tory vote will be gone, replaced with a radically anti-Tory generation.

The raw data in YouGov's latest poll has 7% of people aged 25-49 voting Conservative. Ironically, this is roughly the number of people who have private schooling... so you could lazily think of this as a kind of 'nepotistic floor' for their vote i.e. how many votes would they get if it was just all the wealthier people voting selfishly to protect the status quo. Of course, that's an oversimplification, but perhaps a useful heuristic.

Even if the Tories remain in opposition this time around (more likely than not but not guaranteed), I think that this is far from the end of their troubles. They might normalise again in 2029, but they are fighting an enormous uphill demographic struggle that will eventually hunt them down.

I predict that in 10 years time, if the Lib Dems play their cards right, they will be the new permanent opposition. Then Labour and Lib Dems will polarise to give us quite a different picture - Lib Dems will be economically conservative and socially progressive, Labour will be economically progressive and socially conservative. I think you're already seeing this positioning starting to take shape. Of course - that's just guesswork on my part.

 

[bluenova]

Just shows you that MPs are only part of the problem, the whole party is rotten to the core. It needs somebody to basically burn it down and start again if they have any hope of not getting eventually permanently obliterated. Think of all the older Tories out there who would never vote Labour because of the state of the country pre-Thatcher. Now realise that's going to be how pensioners will feel about the Conservatives in 30 years time. All the current pensioners propping up the Tory vote will be gone, replaced with a radically anti-Tory generation.

The raw data in YouGov's latest poll has 7% of people aged 25-49 voting Conservative. Ironically, this is roughly the number of people who have private schooling... so you could lazily think of this as a kind of 'nepotistic floor' for their vote i.e. how many votes would they get if it was just all the wealthier people voting selfishly to protect the status quo. Of course, that's an oversimplification, but perhaps a useful heuristic.

Even if the Tories remain in opposition this time around (more likely than not but not guaranteed), I think that this is far from the end of their troubles. They might normalise again in 2029, but they are fighting an enormous uphill demographic struggle that will eventually hunt them down.

I predict that in 10 years time, if the Lib Dems play their cards right, they will be the new permanent opposition. Then Labour and Lib Dems will polarise to give us quite a different picture - Lib Dems will be economically conservative and socially progressive, Labour will be economically progressive and socially conservative. I think you're already seeing this positioning starting to take shape. Of course - that's just guesswork on my part.

I think that may be putting too much emphasis on the Labour strategy of targeting Tory seats now, rather than preaching to their base. All the polling I've seen suggests that Labour MPs are just as liberal and progressive as Labour members, and a lot more than the population in general. I'd expect the LDs to be more socially conservative.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

I think that may be putting too much emphasis on the Labour strategy of targeting Tory seats now, rather than preaching to their base. All the polling I've seen suggests that Labour MPs are just as liberal and progressive as Labour members, and a lot more than the population in general. I'd expect the LDs to be more socially conservative.

That's why I'm suggesting this as a prediction, not the current state of affairs.

Somebody is going to have to fill the socially conservative void that the Tories leave behind if they become history. The options are going to be that either Reform are here to stay, or one of the LibDems or Labour shift. Pragmatism suggests that as Labour are the ones who will actually be occupying the seats where it matters, it is possible we see them trying to be "soft conservative" on these things. Not like Reform, but more like a kind of social moderacy where they would rather not have an opinion, but will fall onto a more conservative side if they have to.

Besides, LibDems entire foundation is social progressivism, it's in the name. Their manifesto is pro-immigration, pro-LGBT rights, legalising drugs, globalist world-view. There's no way for me that they're rowing back on those things.

 

[blue for life]

Just shows you that MPs are only part of the problem, the whole party is rotten to the core. It needs somebody to basically burn it down and start again if they have any hope of not getting eventually permanently obliterated. Think of all the older Tories out there who would never vote Labour because of the state of the country pre-Thatcher. Now realise that's going to be how pensioners will feel about the Conservatives in 30 years time. All the current pensioners propping up the Tory vote will be gone, replaced with a radically anti-Tory generation.

The raw data in YouGov's latest poll has 7% of people aged 25-49 voting Conservative. Ironically, this is roughly the number of people who have private schooling... so you could lazily think of this as a kind of 'nepotistic floor' for their vote i.e. how many votes would they get if it was just all the wealthier people voting selfishly to protect the status quo. Of course, that's an oversimplification, but perhaps a useful heuristic.

Even if the Tories remain in opposition this time around (more likely than not but not guaranteed), I think that this is far from the end of their troubles. They might normalise again in 2029, but they are fighting an enormous uphill demographic struggle that will eventually hunt them down.

I predict that in 10 years time, if the Lib Dems play their cards right, they will be the new permanent opposition. Then Labour and Lib Dems will polarise to give us quite a different picture - Lib Dems will be economically conservative and socially progressive, Labour will be economically progressive and socially conservative. I think you're already seeing this positioning starting to take shape. Of course - that's just guesswork on my part.

That will be a great day. And you are right about the voting demographic. I am 60 today and still have peers that are stuck in the old fashioned Tory/OAP/ Reform syndrome but their kids won’t be like that. They are part of a dying rump.