General Election - 4th July 2024

Who will you be voting for in the General Election?

  • Labour

    Votes: 266 56.8%
  • Conservative

    Votes: 12 2.6%
  • Liberal Democrat

    Votes: 40 8.5%
  • Reform

    Votes: 71 15.2%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 28 6.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 51 10.9%

  • Total voters
    468
I find it scary that think tanks have worked out that 3 word slogans are what is needed to win elections/votes.

Labours current one is one word - Change

That tells you so much about what we are like as people.
 
I find it scary that think tanks have worked out that 3 word slogans are what is needed to win elections/votes.

Labours current one is one word - Change

That tells you so much about what we are like as people.

At this rate the Conservatives’ next slogan in 2029 will just be “wibble”

And they’ll probably win a super majority.
 
People should be allowed to vote for whoever they want in a meaningful choice. If that means less than stellar governments then that's what we get. We get the Government that we deserve, every time, for better or worse.

The idea that we should protect democracy by restricting the diversity of political opinion that matters (i.e. are electable) into a sliver of the full range is wrong. You can't protect democracy by restricting it, its arrogant and elitist.

The only caveat to this would be in countries where the electoral system is corrupt due to ballot stuffing or enforced voting or whatever. Obviously that's different, but the UK has no issues with voter fraud or election fraud so its not a problem here.

Give the people exactly what they want and then the system would have done its job. I don't and have never believed that too much democracy results in the lessening of democracy. That's a view generally espoused by those inside the status quo. Why can't we have a serious parties on the far left and right? These are views held within the populace.

I've always considered this a form of cowardice and arrogance. Similar to when people were hawking that the BBC shouldn't let Nick Griffin on Question Time. And they did. And the BNP collapsed. Because nothing hurts these parties more than actually having to debate policy with people who know what they're talking about and are willing to question them.

I'll debate all day long with fascists and communists because I think their ideas are flawed and rooted in poor policy. They are not workable systems. Why people think they need to be hidden away like a dirty secret escapes me. Either people believe that their arguments are not strong enough to overcome them, or they believe that the British people are idiots who cannot recognise good from bad.

I don't have an inbuilt hatred of the people in this country. I think we're generally well educated and generally switched on politically comparatively and people can generally see what a party stands for. I think they can and should be trusted to vote for whoever they want and if we vote in a bad Government then that's on us.

PR is the only way forward for electoral reform. For a country that espouses to the world about how diversity is hugely important to us and has made our country better through new ideas and culture, we then cut a 1% slice of the political spectrum and tell people these are the grounds each party will fight upon. It's hypocritical.

I loved Jeremy Corbyn as a politician, we hold lots of similar views and his early PMQs appearances that he was roundly mocked for, I thought were brilliant. But I hated him as Labour leader because his politics, while admirable, had 0% chance of ever winning a General Election and you can't implement policy if you can't get it through Parliament. We all have to have a cold dose of realism and at that point, I felt Labour was more trying to be philosophers than politicians. Great in the speech circuit, bad in the election. And without power to implement policy, you're basically "an influencer". You know, like Instagram models. Winning is the most important thing for a political party even if its distasteful to admit.

This is not a favourable solution at all. Starmer will win the election and he will pass policy that is to the left of the current Tory policy. But it will be a step to the left and not a jump because its starting to take a generation now for things to change, mainly because the economy tanks when people make huge leaps as the last PM showed. In the last 25 years or so, we've had domination of one party then domination of the other. So it's not like we're a highly efficient political system to begin with, we're tiptoeing between two vaguely similar positions on a 12 year cycle while being petrified of the City.

So I suppose to summarise, I'd say that democracy should be as open and diverse as possible, FPTP has led to tactical voting and voting against interests because they're not winnable, and it has made the country change resistant and created generational reigns for each political party. PR has disadvantages but they're mainly philosophical and based in the idea that people are stupid and will vote for stupid. I'd argue they're not but I'd also argue that if they are and that's what the majority votes for then that's what we should do anyway because that's democracy
You make many valid points but the problem in letting extremists near the seat of power they tend to push to subvert the very democracy that got them there in the first place, you can see this the world over, but Israel is a very good case in point

I guess it's a debate for another time, but I will say this with PR is highly unlikely we would ever have far right or left wing governments in this country, as the vast majority of people are very centre ground in their opinions
 
Ha ha ha ha - Frosty the Showman has spent 18 months writing articles in praise of Truss and Johnson and shitting on Sunak yet expected to waltz into a seat to stand?


The one thing that you can say about Sunak is that he has saved the tories from themselves in his nearly 2 years in power. Liz Truss demonstrated what would happen if you let the worst of them run free in line with the small minded policy ideals of the membership.

She was forced to take on Hunt as chancellor (one of the few remaining sane and pro EU tories) and ultimately she was gone and they had to stick Rishy in as they new he at least had some credibility along with Hunt to not tank the economy.

The fact he is still holding off the nutters is commendable. Over time I think he will be recognised as someone who did OK given the absolute nest of idiots that the party was during his reign. What happens post sunak is frightening.
 
The one thing that you can say about Sunak is that he has saved the tories from themselves in his nearly 2 years in power. Liz Truss demonstrated what would happen if you let the worst of them run free in line with the small minded policy ideals of the membership.

She was forced to take on Hunt as chancellor (one of the few remaining saine and pro EU tories) and ultimately she was gone and they had to stick Rishy in as they new he at least had some credibility along with Hunt to not tank the economy.

The fact he is still holding off the nutters is commendable. Over time I think he will be recognised as someone who did OK given the absolute nest of idiots that the party was during his reign. What happens post sunak is frightening.

Fragmentation - schizm - factionalisation. With around 100 not wanting to stand again they run the real risk of becoming the New Conservatives, The Peoples Conservatives, The Conservative Popular Front , Conservatives 2024 - just a load of groups wanting different things in future like happened over Brexit. Unless a few moderate actual Conservatives get elected and are allowed to forge a future then Conservatism will be dead
 

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