General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Chippy_boy]

Communist

Considering Corbyn is borderline one of those anyway, you'd have to say extreme communist.

 

[Chippy_boy]

They've two fights on their hands and the more dangerous one is within their own party, Johnson, unlike May, is escalating that.

Yes, but May's approach patently didn't work did it. Something had to change and at least he has the cojones to do something about it.

It all hangs on what sort of deal he can do with Farage. If he gets Farage's backing - and this is the tricky part - whilst at the same time not alienating more moderate "leavers" - then he's home and dry and Corbyn et all can do what they like and they are still fucked.

But this is no easy task. Farage's openly stated "price" is "a clean break" from the EU and no withdrawal agreement. Can Boris and Farage find a middle ground?

 

[Ban-jani]

Considering Corbyn is borderline one of those anyway, you'd have to say extreme communist.

Corbyn isn’t a communist.

His manifesto is Social Democrat.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Corbyn isn’t a communist.

His manifesto is Social Democrat.

I didn't say he put out a communist manifesto. No-one would dare.

Does he believe in extensive nationalisation and the state owning the means of production? Yes he does.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Johnson has a nuclear option left.

He could feasibly call a no confidence motion in himself. If he wins the no confidence in himself vote, that I think could be used as a trigger to have a GE.

As crazy as it sounds the opposition parties would have to vote they had confidence in Johnson in order to stop a GE. Now the question is, has Johnson got the bollox to call a no confidence vote in himself, it would be contrary to his character, but if he lost the vote and confidence was shown in him, he could take that as an endorsement of his Premiership and as he is a vain **** he might just do that.

We desperately need a written constitution as I don't think precedent would cover this eventuality. If you think it is confusing now, it might get a hell lot more confusing in the days to come, it depends on how desperate Johnson is to remain in power and all indicators are, he believes he was born to do the job as his inherent narcissism shows.

I know I will be derided as a Corbyn fan boy, despite me saying he is a little too right wing for me, but I have to say he has played the long game here quite superbly, he has the government on the ropes, hanging on for dear life and he can choose when to deliver the killer punch to end this fucking miserable excuse for an administration. Corbyn visibly grew in stature yesterday as Johnson shrunk into his little boy lost petulance routine. Johnson sewed the seeds for these events over the last 20 years and now his hopes and dreams are crashing down around him, it is glorious to see the **** get his comeuppance and its even better to see the miniscule Tory electorate get handed their arse on a plate for falling for the charlatan. He is succeeding in destroying the Tory party and for once I think I might even kiss him.

Even the FT is warming to him....



And this should worry Johnson....A lot.....



But of course "The Sun wot won it" is playing its usual grubby game....

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Maybe.

Every coin has two sides though. Another interpretation could be that despite Corbyn running the campaign of his life, and surprising everyone in doing so, and despite him bribing 50% of the young voters with promises of free tuition fees; despite him successfully using social media to great advantage and despite Theresa May proving to be absolutely abjectly awful, offering literally nothing positive whatsoever, and running THE WORST election campaign in history... A hard left Labour party *still* failed to win anything like as many seats as the Tories.

Boris, for all his many, many faults, is infinitely more popular than May. The party will NEVER run a campaign that bad. They have already started putting out campaigning messages and bribing voters with promises of more money. Cynical, perhaps. Probably. But money talks and people are shallow. Some will not be persuaded but others will.

And Corbyn's popularity is way down compared to where it was. People regard him as weak and opportunistic. And the anti-semitism dark cloud hangs over him and his party.

He's one hell of a mountain to climb from such a low base. Can he do it, i.e. is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so.

Agree with most of that. But I wasn't suggesting a Labour win. I think Labour might hold there seats or make small gains at best. But I expect Lib Dems and SNP to make big gains. The balance coming from tory losses, tories will be dead in Scotland and Wales. A lot hangs on the degree to which alliances form. But if tories to a deal with BXP then that helps them from a maths perspective but further alienates the moderate tory voter (tories would be helping the bxp win seats in the north while handing over some in the south to lib dems - very difficult balance for them and Farage will not do anything 'light'). Also do not discount Labour doing some deals with lib dem, it makes perfect sense if the remain vote is getting split for labour to stand down in some seats where they tend to come 3rd to lib dems / cons.

If we get a hung parliament then the big question is do we get a remain or 2nd vote majority? That is the outcome that I am looking at.

 

[Ban-jani]

I didn't say he put out a communist manifesto. No-one would dare.

Does he believe in extensive nationalisation and the state owning the means of production? Yes he does.

In certain areas but not all.

It’s like saying the Lib Dem’s are the same as the most neoliberal people in America because they’re for free market enterprise.

 

[Chippy_boy]

In certain areas but not all.

It’s like saying the Lib Dem’s are the same as the most neoliberal people in America because they’re for free market enterprise.

I did say borderline, tbf.

Agree with most of that. But I wasn't suggesting a Labour win. I think Labour might hold there seats or make small gains at best. But I expect Lib Dems and SNP to make big gains. The balance coming from tory losses, tories will be dead in Scotland and Wales. A lot hangs on the degree to which alliances form. But if tories to a deal with BXP then that helps them from a maths perspective but further alienates the moderate tory voter (tories would be helping the bxp win seats in the north while handing over some in the south to lib dems - very difficult balance for them and Farage will not do anything 'light'). Also do not discount Labour doing some deals with lib dem, it makes perfect sense if the remain vote is getting split for labour to stand down in some seats where they tend to come 3rd to lib dems / cons.

If we get a hung parliament then the big question is do we get a remain or 2nd vote majority? That is the outcome that I am looking at.

Yes agree with that. It's fascinating in a painful kind of way. What I would say is that too much is made of the SNP making big gains. There are only 59 Scottish seats. The Tories only have 13 and Labour 7. The Tories can't lose more than 13. Labour IMO will broadly stay around 7.

Whilst not entirely trivial (a 13 seat loss is effectively a 26 seat swing, given that in any hung parliament the SNP would back Labour), it's not massively material when you consider there's another 591 seats outside of Scotland to play for. If they Tories were currently the dominant force in Scotland, it would be a different story. They've not been so in Scotland for decades and decades.

Are Labour going to make big gains in Scotland? No.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I didn't say he put out a communist manifesto. No-one would dare.

Does he believe in extensive nationalisation and the state owning the means of production? Yes he does.

No he doesn't you oaf, if he did Rascal would support him and I wouldn't. In the real world, you know the one you don't live in, I support him because he's a democratic socialist (look it up) and Rascal doesn't because he's not an authoritarian socialist, you know that bogymen Corbyn you concoct in your head, that would nationalise the commanding heights of the economy, close down the likes of Eton and Harrow and send Liam Fox to a Re-educations camp on the Yorkshire moors.

For the many not the few....

 

[Chippy_boy]

No he doesn't you oaf,

So you're saying Corbyn does not believe in extensive nationalisation? Or is it just "the means of production" part you disagree with? Just to be clear what you mean when you say "no he doesn't you oaf" in response to my assertion.