General Election - December 12th, 2019

[inbetween]

If the system is neoliberalism I'm all for its destruction.

As is most of the Labour Party and soon all of the Labour Party.

After the revolution of course, when the sleeping giant of the working class cast off their chains and torch Morrisons (once the beer is drunk of course).

And where will we get our food then?

Of course the great socialist army is just sat waiting to work for free and provide food to the masses.

I can see this revolution being short, especially when you take down Just-Eat.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Nah, big differences. Marx thought that capitalism's inherent flaws would see it self-destruct making a revolution of some sort inevitable and advocated one directed at a shared ownership of the means of production, Lenin was a violent revolutionary and later autocratic dictator.

Shit on toast or a shit sandwich.

 

[aguero93:20]

Shit on toast or a shit sandwich.

Not really no and the technological developments over the next few decades could well see Marx proved right. The important thing to remember is that Marx never specifically advocated violent revolution. He would have been far happier (imo, from reading his works and studying the man) to see the revolution happen at the ballot box. I doubt he would have approved of Lenin's or Stalin's methods and he definitely wouldn't have approved of the authoritarian state sponsored capitalism of the USSR.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And capitalism?

Well unlike every version of communism ever tried, capitalism has at least managed to sustain economies with growing rather than declining prosperity and ultimate demise.

 

[The perfect fumble]

And where will we get our food then?

Of course the great socialist army is just sat waiting to work for free and provide food to the masses.

I can see this revolution being short, especially when you take down Just-Eat.

Greggs! You bourgeois bastard.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Well unlike every version of communism ever tried, capitalism has at least managed to sustain economies with growing rather than declining prosperity and ultimate demise.

For some, maybe. The 130,000+ deaths in 9 years of Tory rule - in modern day United Kingdom - might tell you something different.

 

[inbetween]

Greggs! You bourgeois bastard.

Greggs is an evil, capitalist, profit driven shareholder owned empire which must fall, sorry.

Next!

 

[Chippy_boy]

Not really no and the technological developments over the next few decades could well see Marx proved right. The important thing to remember is that Marx never specifically advocated violent revolution. He would have been far happier (imo, from reading his works and studying the man) to see the revolution happen at the ballot box. I doubt he would have approved of Lenin's or Stalin's methods and he definitely wouldn't have approved of the authoritarian state sponsored capitalism of the USSR.

You may be technically right mate, but really that's not the point and frankly it's rather distracting from the main point. Which is that John McDonnell should NEVER be allowed anywhere near a position of power in this country.

I have myself posted on this very forum that in the very long run, capitalism will have run its course. Once AI and robotization have reached levels where an unsustainably large numbers of people are out of work, and there is an unsustainable imbalance between the "haves" and "have nots" then then a different means of distribution of wealth will necessarily have to follow. Marx may well be proved right. But this can only happen when the world's economies are more or less aligned. Countries cannot do it in isolation, as the past 100 years have shown: that does not work.

So it's perhaps another 100 years off and not something for debate in the 2019 General Election thread.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Greggs is an evil, capitalist, profit driven shareholder owned empire which must fall, sorry.

Next!

But they have sausage rolls :(

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

McDonnell: "You see, I don't just want to bring down the government anymore, I want to destroy the system".

It's not really surprising Fumble tries to deflect from quotes like these, is it. They are UTTERLY damning. Anyone who wants that man anywhere near a position of power in this country? They are either completely misinformed and misguided, or if not, you'd have to seriously question their motives.

Not getting in the middle of this, but do you think your current system is working?