General Election June 8th

[Ancient Citizen]

Makes me laugh, the discussions of economics with half remembered stats and folk spouting utter drivel based on often incorrect and misleading articles from the right wing press. Ultimately, if you're working class and vote Tory, you're a disgrace. It's that simple. No matter how you cut it.

I love how you lefties declare yourselves the official arbiters of how folk should be.
The 'Working Class' will almost certainly disagree with you, no matter how you cut it.

 

[inbetween]

Absolutely correct. It's about ideology for him, irrespective of the consequences. I'd say the same about Jeremy, but I am not sure he's bright enough to understand the consequences.

This is why I cannot vote for Labour, I have really taken to Corbyn in the debates and I think he has done really well considering the last year or so. He gets his message across well and even if you don't agree with him you at least listen. The surge in polls is no doubt down purely to his well positioned performances. The thing that immediately stops me though is yes several of his policies but the fact is we also don't just vote for Corbyn and we have to take the rest of them too.

Abbot is someone who thought Mao a mass genocidal dictator did well for China and Mcdonnell believes in the Marxist total overthrow of the capitalist system regardless of the consequences. Looking at the likes of these two over the last few months and imagining them in charge just scares the hell out of me.

 

[The perfect fumble]

How is that playing games?

Stop being mental. PB says the rich pay low taxes. Since when is 45% of something a small or low amount?

Because you know, as others do not, that there are various models of captialism this country could adopt and two are on offer in this election for the first time in decades. This election isn't a contest between neoliberalism and neoliberalism lite as in the past. This election is a competition between neoliberalism and social democratic economic models, it is essential to recognise that in order to decide whether 45% tax is high or low.

To neoliberals 45% is criminal, for social democrats it looks like the bare minimum.

You never widen the debate, you keep everything TINA and your sheep follow you. Of course, in a narrow debate where there is no alternative, 45% is daylight robbery and that's where you like to keep the conversation.

 

[Blue Whale]

Here you go;

https://ig.ft.com/sites/numbers/economies/uk/

Bookmark it. Now nothing needs to be half remembered.

As for drivel, do a search of your own username in this thread and it will bring up your entire thread history. You've made a single cogent point.

You keep on Tory Boy. There's a good lad.

 

[Chippy_boy]

You keep on Tory Boy. There's a good lad.

Has to be said Nico, your posts do seem a bit flippant and lacking content. I mean, you just said that it is a fact that anyone working class who votes Tory is a disgrace.

Perhaps you'd like to explain why you believe that to be the case? (Serious request).

 

[inbetween]

Because you know, as others do not, that there are various models of captialism this country could adopt and two are on offer in this election for the first time in decades. This election isn't a contest between neoliberalism and neoliberalism lite as in the past. This election is a competition between neoliberalism and social democratic economic models, it is essential to recognise that in order to decide whether 45% tax is high or low.

To neoliberals 45% is criminal, for social democrats it looks like the bare minimum.

You never widen the debate, you keep everything TINA and your sheep follow you. Of course, in a narrow debate where there is no alternative, 45% is daylight robbery and that's where you like to keep the conversation.

The problem for the socialists is they are totally reliant on that 45% or more, what happens if those people go elsewhere? Who funds the system then?

Socialism does not work unless everyone participates and it seems the plan is to get only the rich to participate. Ask the poorer to pay more and there would be uproar, socialism however dictates that everyone contributes and inversely therefore shares in the rewards.

My guess is many people are not prepared to contribute which is why they are now asking the rich to instead, imagine if Labour announced a VAT rise or a rise in taxes on the middle classes to fund all of these fantasy land things. There would be utter uproar and that is why a social democratic state simply will never work.

I can tell you now that if bringing in Labour ever meant higher council tax or higher taxes which it will, people will soon change their tune.

Because it is the rich we are happy to shift that burden to them because it won't affect us and we will reap the benefits without putting anything back in but unfortunately it just does not work like that. It is inevitable that Labour's plans will not work out, the rich are best placed to divert their taxes away from here and suddenly the only people left to fund the merry-go-round is you and me.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The problem for the socialists is they are totally reliant on that 45% or more, what happens if those people go elsewhere? Who funds the system then?

Socialism does not work unless everyone participates and it seems the plan is to get only the rich to participate. Ask the poorer to pay more and there would be uproar, socialism however dictates that everyone contributes and inversely therefore shares in the rewards.

My guess is many people are not prepared to contribute which is why they are now asking the rich to instead, imagine if Labour announced a VAT rise or a rise in taxes on the middle classes to fund all of these fantasy land things. There would be utter uproar and that is why a social democratic state simply will never work.

I can tell you now that if bringing in Labour ever meant higher council tax or higher taxes which it will, people will soon change their tune.

Because it is the rich we are happy to shift that burden to them because it won't affect us and we will reap the benefits without putting anything back in but unfortunately it just does not work like that. It is inevitable that Labour's plans will not work out, the rich are best placed to divert their taxes away from here and suddenly the only people left to fund the merry-go-round is you and me.

Well, it's a good thing for you then that socialism isn't on offer in this election.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Because you know, as others do not, that there are various models of captialism this country could adopt and two are on offer in this election for the first time in decades. This election isn't a contest between neoliberalism and neoliberalism lite as in the past. This election is a competition between neoliberalism and social democratic economic models, it is essential to recognise that in order to decide whether 45% tax is high or low.

To neoliberals 45% is criminal, for social democrats it looks like the bare minimum.

You never widen the debate, you keep everything TINA and your sheep follow you. Of course, in a narrow debate where there is no alternative, 45% is daylight robbery and that's where you like to keep the conversation.

OK, let me widen it for you. You assert that 45% is a low rate of tax. So how does that actually compare in 2017? Courtesy of KPMG:

EU average 38.56
Europe average 35.51
Global average 33.73
Latin America average 34.11
North America average 36.3
Oceania average 37.5
OECD average 42.4
South America average 34.11

 

[mat]

Tory candidate in south thanet chared with electoral fraud

 

[inbetween]

Well, it's a good thing for you then that socialism isn't on offer in this election.

You clearly do not know much about the Labour shadow cabinet nor the man who would end up in charge of our economy... Have you not seen them at their rallies with their fists in the air belting out the red flag anthem?

What is on offer is a socialist utopia which ironically is not based upon socialist principles. The reason it does not go further is simply because they would have to replace every MP given 85%+ do not support them.