George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

Silva_Spell said:
I'd also argue regular people need training on knowing their rights in relation to police encounters and how to comply so you don't get shot. An innocent movement of your hand can result in your death, again, regardless of race.
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You don't have any rights if a police officer has a right to kill you for an innocent hand movement.
 
ChicagoBlue said:


Police officers watch videos like this in training.

Policing peaceful protestors is a different task than a traffic stop with non-compliance.

I am casting no premature judgement on the Kenosha shooting.

Would some of you feel differently if you discovered he was reaching inside his car for a gun? I don’t know if was or wasn’t. I don’t know if there was a gun in the car or not. I do know that if the officers had waited until they saw a gun, they could be dead now.

As I have said, when guns are ubiquitous, EVERY cop in EVERY situation has to assume the use of deadly force AGAINST HIM is a possibility.

There is admitted non-compliance and we ALL know enough to know that non-compliance and actions in complete contradiction of the compliance orders elevate the fear and danger of the situation.

Non-compliance coupled with bending down into a car, with the door partially open, backs to the officers do they have zero visibility of what the non-compliant person is doing is, in my opinion, the height of stupidity and daring the officers to use they already drawn weapons.

Ask yourself a question:

If you were confronted by two armed officers, guns drawn, barking orders at you, would YOU comply?

If not, why not?

Would you walk around a car away from them, where they can’t see your hands?

Would you then open your drivers side car door (the location where most people with weapons keep that weapon, within reach while driving, which is illegal unless legally permitted for concealed carry), with your back to officers, where they have zero vision of your hands?

You don’t even live in the US, but I would imagine most everyone in the UK would comply immediately, would not ignore lawful compliance orders from armed officers, and would definitely not ignore them to the point of just walking around the car to get to the drivers side door to reach in.

Like I said, I’ll withhold judgment until I know more, but I simply ask what would YOU have done? What do you think the “normal” person would have done? Why do YOU think the person was so completely non-compliant? Does non-compliance in the face of armed officers suggest fear or did he act quite nonchalantly? We’re there other people in the immediate vicinity, any one of whom could have been armed, escalate the situation?

Again, no judgement, just asking the questions that reasonable people ask about these incidents.





These were essentially “nothing” incidents until, in a split second, they became potentially deadly encounters...for police officers.

If YOU were a police officer, would YOU wait until fired upon to return fire? In those last two videos, did those guys look like they were afraid of the police? Had any intention to comply? Did they look like they ANY FEAR, OR CONCERN FOR HUMAN LIFE WHATSOEVER, when they immediately opened fire, and even got out of their own cars to run to the police cars to have a gun battle in the street?

Again, no judgement if you or your answers, just asking questions of (I assume) normal, every day, run of the mill, law abiding citizens from a country where gun crime is almost non-existent.
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Unfortunately, at this point in time we don't have the whole incident to look at until the cops release their body cams on the Kenosha shooting.

But, the man doesn't look like he has a weapon in his hands, he doesn't look like he's running, he doesn't look particularly aggressive and, at the point of the vid we already see guns drawn.

So, as Brits, we would wonder why the incident wouldn't be investigated on the spot where all parties talk and get to the bottom of the situation before anything escalates. That's pretty much deescalation, right there. No judgements are cast, just questions asked.

We would have to get the full picture before making a decision on why there's 'non-compliance'. It could be that the man was fed up of the whole thing (who know how many times this has happened) and just wanted to get his boys home, not expecting to be shot in the back, multiple times.

i hope he sues and wins (unlikely!).
 
Silva_Spell said:
Demagoguery. It's not a case of having the right to be killed for an innocent hand movement
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Sure it is. I move my hand innocently. The cop makes a mistake and thinks I'm reaching for a weapon and I'm dead. The cop is alive, I'm dead. Who has rights in the aftermath? Did he violate mine? No? But do I have any left? Nope, I'm dead.
 
Silva_Spell said:
More demagoguery.
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Police officers make mistakes. It's their job not to. They are the ones with the power of the law. Their job is to protect the citizenry. A police officer who shoots someone for an innocent hand movement has made a mistake and not done his/her job correctly.

You have a dollar to spend on training -- either on the policeman to prevent such things from happening, or on the "citizenry" to ensure they don't twitch involuntarily. Which do you spend it on?
 
BobKowalski said:
You do realise that isn’t normal, right? What if you are ill, deaf, mentally incapacitated, drunk, in diabetic shock, etc.

You really think the penalty for these conditions and any others you care to mention is a hail of bullets?

That isn’t policing. That’s just executing people.
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Mate, I have seen police shoot mentally ill people from distance, sat on the floor doing nothing!

It's a joke!
 
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