George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[kaz7]

Police officers watch videos like this in training.

Policing peaceful protestors is a different task than a traffic stop with non-compliance.

I am casting no premature judgement on the Kenosha shooting.

Would some of you feel differently if you discovered he was reaching inside his car for a gun? I don’t know if was or wasn’t. I don’t know if there was a gun in the car or not. I do know that if the officers had waited until they saw a gun, they could be dead now.

As I have said, when guns are ubiquitous, EVERY cop in EVERY situation has to assume the use of deadly force AGAINST HIM is a possibility.

There is admitted non-compliance and we ALL know enough to know that non-compliance and actions in complete contradiction of the compliance orders elevate the fear and danger of the situation.

Non-compliance coupled with bending down into a car, with the door partially open, backs to the officers do they have zero visibility of what the non-compliant person is doing is, in my opinion, the height of stupidity and daring the officers to use they already drawn weapons.

Ask yourself a question:

If you were confronted by two armed officers, guns drawn, barking orders at you, would YOU comply?

If not, why not?

Would you walk around a car away from them, where they can’t see your hands?

Would you then open your drivers side car door (the location where most people with weapons keep that weapon, within reach while driving, which is illegal unless legally permitted for concealed carry), with your back to officers, where they have zero vision of your hands?

You don’t even live in the US, but I would imagine most everyone in the UK would comply immediately, would not ignore lawful compliance orders from armed officers, and would definitely not ignore them to the point of just walking around the car to get to the drivers side door to reach in.

Like I said, I’ll withhold judgment until I know more, but I simply ask what would YOU have done? What do you think the “normal” person would have done? Why do YOU think the person was so completely non-compliant? Does non-compliance in the face of armed officers suggest fear or did he act quite nonchalantly? We’re there other people in the immediate vicinity, any one of whom could have been armed, escalate the situation?

Again, no judgement, just asking the questions that reasonable people ask about these incidents.





These were essentially “nothing” incidents until, in a split second, they became potentially deadly encounters...for police officers.

If YOU were a police officer, would YOU wait until fired upon to return fire? In those last two videos, did those guys look like they were afraid of the police? Had any intention to comply? Did they look like they ANY FEAR, OR CONCERN FOR HUMAN LIFE WHATSOEVER, when they immediately opened fire, and even got out of their own cars to run to the police cars to have a gun battle in the street?

Again, no judgement if you or your answers, just asking questions of (I assume) normal, every day, run of the mill, law abiding citizens from a country where gun crime is almost non-existent.

They had every opportunity to tasar him rather than shoot him,there were three small children in the car,black men cant win,comply you get murdered in the street,walk away you get murdered in the street

 

[bluethrunthru]

An innocent movement of your hand can result in your death

whilst you are right you do realise thats just not normal - not normal Policing, not normal crime prevention right around the world.

 

[Silva_Spell]

whilst you are right you do realise thats just not normal - not normal Policing, not normal crime prevention right around the world.

That's why it's important to look at it in the correct context - a society where it's a right to own a firearm.

 

[Silva_Spell]

And Kenosha police DO NOT wear body cams!! So, essentially, it'll be their word against Jacob Blake's... but thank goodness for mobile phones, eh...?

Pellerin had a knife and was walking into the store. Any cop that allowed him/the situation into the store would have been guilty of dereliction of duty.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

It's not that I couldn't, it's that I didn't, and needn't. I was being kind in my answer because quite frankly the question was pointless and dumb

As for the media, there are some good reporters but by and large the mainstream is about sensationalism and stoking up their people. Or maybe you watch the likes of Fox, CNN, MSNBC and think 'this is thoughtful stuff'

“Who would you vote for, Biden or Trump?”

“That question is pointless and dumb.”

Well, that’s one way of looking at it.

 

[Silva_Spell]

“Who would you vote for, Biden or Trump?”

“That question is pointless and dumb.”

Well, that’s one way of looking at it.

Can't even get your own questions straight. smh

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Can't even get your own questions straight. smh

I asked you on the other thread — you wouldn’t answer.

I asked you a different question here and you called it pointless and dumb even though it was YOUR suggestion as a remedy for the problems we’re all discussing.

The problem isn’t that I can’t get my questions straight — it’s that you don’t have any straight answers.

At least you backtracked on your blanket media generalizations, hurrah hurrah.

 

[Silva_Spell]

I asked you on the other thread — you wouldn’t answer.

I asked you a different question here and you called it pointless and dumb even though it was YOUR suggestion as a remedy for the problems we’re all discussing.

The problem isn’t that I can’t get my questions straight — it’s that you don’t have any straight answers.

At least you backtracked on your blanket media generalizations, hurrah hurrah.

My remedy was to do err... both things. Your weird obsession with getting answers from me as tho I'm running for office is a little strange.
"we need food and water!"
"ah but if you could only have one?"
"need both"
"couldn't answer the question!!!!!!"

No backtracking, just didn't think someone would actually think I'd mean every.single.person.involved.in.the.media. Guess I was wrong.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

But he’s not wrong.

I believe he is, but that’s the point of forums and discussions.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Some observations.

You state ‘Cops watch videos like this all the time in training.’ How does this help?

It helps police understand where threats are, what threats were missed by certain officers, how certain “benefit of the doubt” moments can be deadly, etc, etc, etc.

If you did not or could not expand your mind even that far, it is inconceivable that you understand their training.

Surely training is about the correct way to conduct a traffic stop. Positions to take, how to approach etc. How does watching videos of cops being shot do anything other than install fear in cops?

Before a 22 year old guy becomes a cop, do you think he has ever been face to face with an armed assailant? How about an armed driver he just stop for speeding? Hell, I can legally be an armed driver stopped by a cop. How should I respond? How should he/she respond? We both know, but what when things do NOT go that way? (See the video examples I provided above) What are the consequences of escalation? How do you de-escalate an assailant who is determined to escalate, exhibit non-compliance, holding a weapon?

Until you stand in front of someone holding a loaded gun aimed at you, it’s easy to come on a Forum and spout platitudes about fear.

’Fearful’ people do not approach situations calmly. Giving ‘fearful’ people guns and authority over other people is just going to lead to a lot of dead people.

I refer you to the comments above. 300M+ guns. Millions of those legal to be hidden on a person, millions more allowed to be openly carried.

Compliance saves lives. Compliance would have led to zero rounds being shot in Kenosha.

The depiction of ‘blacks equals trouble’ as part of LEO training is a societal issue.

WTF??? Could you show me an example this LEO Training?

You’ll notice the color of the people in the traffic stops I provided. EVERYONE is a potential threat when guns are ubiquitous and seen as the enemy when trying to stop someone and probably charge them with an offence.

The history of black suppression in rooted in fear. Keep your foot on the back of their necks otherwise they will rise against you. Keep them poor, ignorant and excluded from main society otherwise they will rise against you. When slavery went, segregation and exclusion was the next step in suppression of blacks.

And we’re off to the races again! Pun intended.

Man is a social animal, we have a desire to fit in, to know our place within the societies that we live in, fundamentally the vast majority are decent, but if you treat people if they are not, or a segment of people as ‘trouble’ or always ‘angry’ then you creating your own problems. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

Great speech (yawn).

Now, was there something you wanted to say about the issue to which I was speaking: Kenosha shooting?

if you think the Bluemoon Forum is going to solve the racial issues in America in fortune cookie messages, we are doomed.

Again, just my two cents.

Worth every penny.