Girl savaged to death by dogs in Manchester

I have a springer spaniel , Colin. He is very soft and adores my 8 month old daughter. Worse he'd do is pinch her biscuit. If we pop her on the rug for a wriggle about he'll go and snuggle up to her.
But... I would NEVER leave the two of them alone. If I pop upstairs I, without fail, put the dog in the kitchen, even if I'm literally going to be 1/2 a min. He is after all a dog and not 100% trusted not to snap.
 
TCIB said:
Not all dog lovers are deaf to anyone saying things that may contridict their feelings.

I love dog's and but accept they can snap.
However they are part of human society and that's just how it is.

I can understand people wanting fighting attributes being bred out of some breeds for safety.

The amount of dog's abused by humans far outweighs dog attacks on humans.
This can be a cause for aggression and distrust of certain actions or type of people.

I consider myself resposible and would never nurture aggression, the opposite in fact.

Seeing how i had my ex's dog behaving in just a week you have to look at the owners.
They will mirror the house and life they are company to, chaotic households with people in and out all the time and shouting is no good.
You put the same dog in a good home with structure and a good master and they will be brilliant.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruMS6OV5vvM[/youtube]
 
Skashion said:
TCIB said:
Not all dog lovers are deaf to anyone saying things that may contridict their feelings.

I love dog's and but accept they can snap.
However they are part of human society and that's just how it is.

I can understand people wanting fighting attributes being bred out of some breeds for safety.

The amount of dog's abused by humans far outweighs dog attacks on humans.
This can be a cause for aggression and distrust of certain actions or type of people.

I consider myself resposible and would never nurture aggression, the opposite in fact.

Seeing how i had my ex's dog behaving in just a week you have to look at the owners.
They will mirror the house and life they are company to, chaotic households with people in and out all the time and shouting is no good.
You put the same dog in a good home with structure and a good master and they will be brilliant.

i rescued a 6-year staffy last year after i lost my 14 yr old staffy. Both my lads were brought up with my 1st dog.

When i rescued the dog i have now last year from the kennels, it was a good chance she had been abused and therefore i was very wary of here for a few months until she had settled in and learned to trust again. It takes time for both sides to adjust and trust.

Trust and respect is entirely mutual with a dog.....

you show it hate, it will hate

you show it love and it will multiply that love 10 times over


you've also got the pack mentality to consider with the dogs in question, they have been reared with several other dogs all pushing to be top dog and top of the food chain, this cannot be safe for a home environment
 
Tourist since 1971 said:
stonerblue said:
jma said:
"My dog is as soft as anything and would never hurt a fly"

That is typical of the sort of quote on this thread.

Change the word 'is' to 'was' and the word 'would' to 'had' and you also have the standard quote from owners after many incidents where a dog has savaged someone.

The fact is, some dog breeds are far more dangerous than others. If only because they are capable of being much more aggressive and powerful if they do snap.

Of the type of breeds involved - those that people loosely stereotype as being owner by nobheads as a status symbol - I struggle to see why anyone favours them over less dangerous breeds. It is an ego trip, imo.

And I don't just mean with the type of stereotypical scrote that walks around showing off with the intention of intimidation and scaring people. I know owners of these types of dogs who would be genuinely appalled if their dog ever hurt anyone and are far, far removed from that type of scrote. However, most, if not all of them, imo, still invest a fair bit of ego in owning that type of dog. Even when train it to be totally docile, they still (not so) secretly enjoy being an owner of that type of powerful dog and enjoy being seen as the sort of person who 'knows how to handle' that type of powerful dog. A person who "has no problems" with that sort of dog. That is often an ego trip in itself. The same people are hardly likely to feel the same way about being seen as the sort of person who "has no problems" with, "can handle" and has fully domesticated a Poodle.

No matter how docile they train the dog to be, they choose that type of dog because it is that type of dog. They might not be doing so for exactly the same reason as a scrote - intimidation and fear - but the fact that the dog is a powerful dog and that type of breed is usually utmost in their thoughts.

To have that sort of dog anywhere near children is taking an awful risk, regardless of its history. It takes one incident, even if the statistics are well in your favour.

That's a good post.

I walk my dog (rottweiler) round then streets twice a day. Usually i'm wearing black coat and hat covering my face. I guess that most people that see us think i'm some scrote (albeit a very handsome one) posing with me vicious dog.
In reality, my wife picked the breed because she wanted to try and give a beautiful dog a better reputation. All the kids in my street love our dog. In summer they knock on and ask if she's coming out. We go in the bookies/shop/pub for a biscuit
Some people cross the street to avoid us when we're out, others make a detour to stroke the dog.

As for raising kids in a risk free enviroment, no chance.
More people are killed by bees/pushbikes/skateboards/choking/trains etc (it's a very long list) than dogs every year.

The benefits to mankind from having domesticated dogs far outweigh the minuscule number of deaths caused by dog 'attacks'


Although I detest such breeds and usually the owners, your post was relatively reasonable - right up until the very last word, when you undermined your whole case by implying the violence inflicted on victims doesn't constitute an attack. What the fuck is it then if it's not an attack, a little playful teasing and harmless tomfoolery? I've been bitten by a dog, and had the whole tetanus injection malarkey, and I can tell you I was shit scared - it bloody seemed like an attack on my person while it was happening.

Fair point '71. And i suppose if it results in a fatality then it must be an attack.

I was trying to point out that the statistics lump all dog related injuries as an 'attack' when that is not always the case.
 
shadygiz said:
Skashion said:
TCIB said:
Not all dog lovers are deaf to anyone saying things that may contridict their feelings.

I love dog's and but accept they can snap.
However they are part of human society and that's just how it is.

I can understand people wanting fighting attributes being bred out of some breeds for safety.

The amount of dog's abused by humans far outweighs dog attacks on humans.
This can be a cause for aggression and distrust of certain actions or type of people.

I consider myself resposible and would never nurture aggression, the opposite in fact.

Seeing how i had my ex's dog behaving in just a week you have to look at the owners.
They will mirror the house and life they are company to, chaotic households with people in and out all the time and shouting is no good.
You put the same dog in a good home with structure and a good master and they will be brilliant.

i rescued a 6-year staffy last year after i lost my 14 yr old staffy. Both my lads were brought up with my 1st dog.

When i rescued the dog i have now last year from the kennels, it was a good chance she had been abused and therefore i was very wary of here for a few months until she had settled in and learned to trust again. It takes time for both sides to adjust and trust.

Trust and respect is entirely mutual with a dog.....

you show it hate, it will hate

you show it love and it will multiply that love 10 times over


you've also got the pack mentality to consider with the dogs in question, they have been reared with several other dogs all pushing to be top dog and top of the food chain, this cannot be safe for a home environment
"you've also got the pack mentality to consider with the dogs"
You have to make sure your dog knows you are the pack leader.Soft as shit breed,or meant to be hard as nails breed.My Daughter used to pull his ears when she was about 3/4,all's he did back was to lick her face and still does now.Human's aswell as dogs/cats etc... can go ballistic anytime it depends on upbringing!!!
 
I've had loads of different breeds. Collies, German Sheps, mongrels and pedigree toy dogs.

Each was capable of turning nasty in their own way whether it by food, people, neurotic tendencies or whatever.

A dog isn't a human, they have their own rules.

The sooner people and owners realise that the better.
 
pieface said:
mindmyp's_n_q's said:
1 to 2 dogs=family pet, 5 dogs=pack

5 dogs=pack in small family home on an estate= fkin moronic human with no common sense.


exactly...as i said above it promoted and created a pack mentality between the dogs where the rules change and everyone becomes part of the pecking order (including humans).

I've seen it with our dog, she started pestering me and my missus for tit-bits, etc and when she got no acknowledgement there, she moved down the pecking order to try and beg for tit-bits from the kids.

thats just one dog, imagine that amplified by 5 and the intense rivalry to get food and tit-bits
 
shadygiz said:
pieface said:
mindmyp's_n_q's said:
1 to 2 dogs=family pet, 5 dogs=pack

5 dogs=pack in small family home on an estate= fkin moronic human with no common sense.


exactly...as i said above it promoted and created a pack mentality between the dogs where the rules change and everyone becomes part of the pecking order (including humans).

I've seen it with our dog, she started pestering me and my missus for tit-bits, etc and when she got no acknowledgement there, she moved down the pecking order to try and beg for tit-bits from the kids.

thats just one dog, imagine that amplified by 5 and the intense rivalry to get food and tit-bits

Ha ha mine does that, people make the mistake that dogs see the world as we do (or have the values that we are meant to have ;-) ) There is no equality every pack member knows it's place, and are happy to know their place dogs are unhappiest when they don't know their place in the pack structure.

I agree that keeping that many dogs is a huge mistake for someone who does not know how to deal with dogs, Caesar Milan (the Dog Whisperer) demonstrates how you do it, he goes out for a walk with his dogs there are loads of them, everyone does as it's told and they are all happy and contented, because they know who the boss is
 

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