Given issues ultimatum to Mancini

[alera]

Given is 34. Hart 23. I am sick of both of them attitude wise TBH and any other player that cant keep his mouth shut and fight for his place.

Compare to the Dignity players like Ireland and Bellamy have shown despite if rumpurs are correct being pushed out the door or obviously not first choice.

Its pretty clear we are being forced into picking one, Given is going on 35 hes had injury problems in fact hes comming back from a bad injury that caused us problems las season. So really Hart picks himself, we would rather they bith stayed, plenty of games to be played one could play league the other cups but they wont have that so we will have to make a call.

Given says if he not guranteed first choise hes likley to want a move considering his age. Fine sell him get back what we paid and go with Hart and Taylor.

We have to get a settled and happy ship. No more disruptive players that think they can call the shots and pick the team themselves.

 

[another generation]

Flip a coin, draw straws, pull the petals off a daisy. Many ways to decide for each game. Best of three, if it's fairer.

 

[calculated]

So in summary, Joe Hart can demand to start or he'll quit all summer and it's just fine. Shay Given after hearing Hart's numerous demands, himself demands to start or he'll quit once and he's satan. Seems reasonable.

 

[Scooby Blue]

in football there are two types of goalkeepers.
goalkeepers good for small teams. then there are goalkeepers good for great teams.
the goalkeeper is especially good for small teams when he is a good shotstopper. his small team may undergoes 20 or more shots every game.
a good keeper for a great team must be able to do other things. usually his team suffers a very few shots.
but he must know how to control the defense and should be complete.
must be good with his feet to kick a ball with precision. and must have vision becouse often he his the first playmaker. and must be able to go out on high balls.
Given in my opinion is not a keeper for a big club

Totally agree with this ^^ and very disappointed with Given's inability to bat away a few journo questions without putting more pressure on Mancini.

Look at what happened in the World Cup with England when goalkeeping decision was left to the last minute... I think Mancini has made a mistake in leaving it this late to decide who is his No 1.

For what it's worth I don't particularly rate either Hart or Given anywhere near as highly as most on here seem to. Very few outstanding keepers in PL but I would rather have Reina / Van der Saar / Schwarzer than Given or Hart.

 

[IrishMacca]

Amazing how people are spinning this. Given as respectfully as he can answers the question honestly.
Hart has gone on and on and on for months, and Given is asked once and says that he hopes to start, but Hart is a very good keeper and whatever happens he'll respect the managers decision. He was than pushed to answer whether he'll leave if he doesn't start and he eventually answers that he MIGHT CONSIDER thinking about going on loan but would rather stay at the big, ambitious club that City is. But if he doesn't start he might think about going on loan and coming back.

Yet apparently this means that he's just demanding a move, giving him an ultimatum and putting pressure on him.

Shockingly I think Mancini actually might know his players.

 

[savo]

Re: Sooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

Has anyone mentioned the Given ultimatum (not a new film BTW) or are the Given lovers too scared?


NB - I am having problems with cached versions of the site today but havent seen it mentioned yet?

Go on then I'll bite... Explain

hahaha, Manford reference....Funny!!

 

[sweep]

Amazing how people are spinning this. Given as respectfully as he can answers the question honestly.
Hart has gone on and on and on for months, and Given is asked once and says that he hopes to start, but Hart is a very good keeper and whatever happens he'll respect the managers decision. He was than pushed to answer whether he'll leave if he doesn't start and he eventually answers that he MIGHT CONSIDER thinking about going on loan but would rather stay at the big, ambitious club that City is. But if he doesn't start he might think about going on loan and coming back.

Yet apparently this means that he's just demanding a move, giving him an ultimatum and putting pressure on him.

Shockingly I think Mancini actually might know his players.

Of course he'll respect the manager's decision, he's under contract. The wording might have been very slightly more diplomatic but, spin it any way you like, he's saying exactly the same as you've been slagging Hart off for the last few weeks yet you defend him purely because he's Irish.

For me, there's nothing between them in terms of ability right now and while Hart has years of development ahead of him, Given isn't going to get any better and has had a nasty, and likely recurrent, injury. If I had to choose, Hart wins.

 

[IrishMacca]

Amazing how people are spinning this. Given as respectfully as he can answers the question honestly.
Hart has gone on and on and on for months, and Given is asked once and says that he hopes to start, but Hart is a very good keeper and whatever happens he'll respect the managers decision. He was than pushed to answer whether he'll leave if he doesn't start and he eventually answers that he MIGHT CONSIDER thinking about going on loan but would rather stay at the big, ambitious club that City is. But if he doesn't start he might think about going on loan and coming back.

Yet apparently this means that he's just demanding a move, giving him an ultimatum and putting pressure on him.

Shockingly I think Mancini actually might know his players.

Of course he'll respect the manager's decision, he's under contract. The wording might have been very slightly more diplomatic but, spin it any way you like, he's saying exactly the same as you've been slagging Hart off for the last few weeks yet you defend him purely because he's Irish.

For me, there's nothing between them in terms of ability right now and while Hart has years of development ahead of him, Given isn't going to get any better and has had a nasty, and likely recurrent, injury. If I had to choose, Hart wins.

Hart has constantly moaned to the press, Given answered it, but made the point that he genuinely wants to stay and fight, Hart doesn't sound as commited.
Of course he'll respect the decision..nothing to do with his contract, players like Tevez, like Robinho..etc didn't respect their managers decisions, fuck it there's a list as long as England filled with brat type players that didn't respect the managers decisions. Contract or no contract.

And don't talk to me about saying it because he's Irish, half of ye all want Hart to start purely because he's young and English, not because he's better. The amount of posts I've read that say Given's good, nothing between them, but Hart's the future and should start. Or something to that tone.

And all these so called expert doctors opinons are different to the actual specialists themselves. The reason surgery was done on Given's shoulder was to stop it from happening again, something that has been very succesfull in the past, especially with the likes of rugby players, the likes of Brian O Driscoll got an awful dislocation after being dumped on his head in 05, had surgery on it and took much longer to recover than Given, and has no problem with it since. It sounds to me that some people are genuinely hopefull that the injury is worse than it is.
Keepers are Hart's age are very suspect, keepers at Given's age are top of their game or nearing it.

Look at the likes of United and Van Der Sar, he's 39, and they've had him as their number one for years, they could have gone for a youngster with potential, like they tried with Foster, but as always they don't do so well and are moved on. They could, to an extent have anyone, and the likes of Van Der Sar have beaten off the young English promises that have been the likes of Foster. You don't go and buy promising young keepers if you're looking for one to join a top 4 (or aiming for) team, you go and buy an old enough keeper, there's a reason for that.

 

[Mancio]

Of course he'll respect the manager's decision, he's under contract. The wording might have been very slightly more diplomatic but, spin it any way you like, he's saying exactly the same as you've been slagging Hart off for the last few weeks yet you defend him purely because he's Irish.

For me, there's nothing between them in terms of ability right now and while Hart has years of development ahead of him, Given isn't going to get any better and has had a nasty, and likely recurrent, injury. If I had to choose, Hart wins.

Hart has constantly moaned to the press, Given answered it, but made the point that he genuinely wants to stay and fight, Hart doesn't sound as commited.
Of course he'll respect the decision..nothing to do with his contract, players like Tevez, like Robinho..etc didn't respect their managers decisions, fuck it there's a list as long as England filled with brat type players that didn't respect the managers decisions. Contract or no contract.

And don't talk to me about saying it because he's Irish, half of ye all want Hart to start purely because he's young and English, not because he's better. The amount of posts I've read that say Given's good, nothing between them, but Hart's the future and should start. Or something to that tone.

And all these so called expert doctors opinons are different to the actual specialists themselves. The reason surgery was done on Given's shoulder was to stop it from happening again, something that has been very succesfull in the past, especially with the likes of rugby players, the likes of Brian O Driscoll got an awful dislocation after being dumped on his head in 05, had surgery on it and took much longer to recover than Given, and has no problem with it since. It sounds to me that some people are genuinely hopefull that the injury is worse than it is.
Keepers are Hart's age are very suspect, keepers at Given's age are top of their game or nearing it.

Look at the likes of United and Van Der Sar, he's 39, and they've had him as their number one for years, they could have gone for a youngster with potential, like they tried with Foster, but as always they don't do so well and are moved on. They could, to an extent have anyone, and the likes of Van Der Sar have beaten off the young English promises that have been the likes of Foster. You don't go and buy promising young keepers if you're looking for one to join a top 4 (or aiming for) team, you go and buy an old enough keeper, there's a reason for that.

its not a problem of age. buffon was serie A regular when he was 18 at Parma and at juventus at 20. and international too. its not the age, its the talent.

 

[IrishMacca]

Hart has constantly moaned to the press, Given answered it, but made the point that he genuinely wants to stay and fight, Hart doesn't sound as commited.
Of course he'll respect the decision..nothing to do with his contract, players like Tevez, like Robinho..etc didn't respect their managers decisions, fuck it there's a list as long as England filled with brat type players that didn't respect the managers decisions. Contract or no contract.

And don't talk to me about saying it because he's Irish, half of ye all want Hart to start purely because he's young and English, not because he's better. The amount of posts I've read that say Given's good, nothing between them, but Hart's the future and should start. Or something to that tone.

And all these so called expert doctors opinons are different to the actual specialists themselves. The reason surgery was done on Given's shoulder was to stop it from happening again, something that has been very succesfull in the past, especially with the likes of rugby players, the likes of Brian O Driscoll got an awful dislocation after being dumped on his head in 05, had surgery on it and took much longer to recover than Given, and has no problem with it since. It sounds to me that some people are genuinely hopefull that the injury is worse than it is.
Keepers are Hart's age are very suspect, keepers at Given's age are top of their game or nearing it.

Look at the likes of United and Van Der Sar, he's 39, and they've had him as their number one for years, they could have gone for a youngster with potential, like they tried with Foster, but as always they don't do so well and are moved on. They could, to an extent have anyone, and the likes of Van Der Sar have beaten off the young English promises that have been the likes of Foster. You don't go and buy promising young keepers if you're looking for one to join a top 4 (or aiming for) team, you go and buy an old enough keeper, there's a reason for that.

its not a problem of age. buffon was serie A regular when he was 18 at Parma and at juventus at 20. and international too. its not the age, its the talent.

It is the age, ya class shines through eventually, but at 23, he's proven nothing. In Italy, it's different, players play with their clubs and they don't have the money to compete with England.
With keepers though, the top clubs target experienced older keepers for a reason. The best keepers in England, in the world for that matter are around or above 30, not just a coincidence. The young keepers start and play at a midlevel table and either sink like a rock or swim, but it's a long grueling process where they will make mistakes. mistakes that we, or United, or Chelsea, or Liverpool or Arsenal..etc can't afford to make. Like I said there is a reason they all go for experienced keepers.

If, God forbid Hart started and made a terrible mistake in an incredibly important match early on in the game he'd be gone, say what happened to Green happened to Hart, he wouldn't have been able to recover from that, genuinely it would have finished him. Or, if God forbid, Given made a mistake like that in a game, or any other more experienced keeper, they'd shake it off and keep their head in the game.

Having a young keeper in goals is about as predictable as a teenager. They will not give you security or consistancy.

 

[HolisticJim]

We dont have the time to be messing about with an inexperienced goalkeeper this season.
Hart needs to sit tight, learn, take his game time when he can and most of those for me should be the earlier stages of cup matches.

Given has done his time and is our snr keeper, hart should respect that.

I fully expect Given to be between the sticks come Saturday.

 

[SWPISHOME]

Of course he'll respect the manager's decision, he's under contract. The wording might have been very slightly more diplomatic but, spin it any way you like, he's saying exactly the same as you've been slagging Hart off for the last few weeks yet you defend him purely because he's Irish.

For me, there's nothing between them in terms of ability right now and while Hart has years of development ahead of him, Given isn't going to get any better and has had a nasty, and likely recurrent, injury. If I had to choose, Hart wins.

Hart has constantly moaned to the press, Given answered it, but made the point that he genuinely wants to stay and fight, Hart doesn't sound as commited.
Of course he'll respect the decision..nothing to do with his contract, players like Tevez, like Robinho..etc didn't respect their managers decisions, fuck it there's a list as long as England filled with brat type players that didn't respect the managers decisions. Contract or no contract.

And don't talk to me about saying it because he's Irish, half of ye all want Hart to start purely because he's young and English, not because he's better. The amount of posts I've read that say Given's good, nothing between them, but Hart's the future and should start. Or something to that tone.

And all these so called expert doctors opinons are different to the actual specialists themselves. The reason surgery was done on Given's shoulder was to stop it from happening again, something that has been very succesfull in the past, especially with the likes of rugby players, the likes of Brian O Driscoll got an awful dislocation after being dumped on his head in 05, had surgery on it and took much longer to recover than Given, and has no problem with it since. It sounds to me that some people are genuinely hopefull that the injury is worse than it is.
Keepers are Hart's age are very suspect, keepers at Given's age are top of their game or nearing it.

Look at the likes of United and Van Der Sar, he's 39, and they've had him as their number one for years, they could have gone for a youngster with potential, like they tried with Foster, but as always they don't do so well and are moved on. They could, to an extent have anyone, and the likes of Van Der Sar have beaten off the young English promises that have been the likes of Foster. You don't go and buy promising young keepers if you're looking for one to join a top 4 (or aiming for) team, you go and buy an old enough keeper, there's a reason for that.

Have to disagree with that, Hart has never 'moaned constantly to the press' thats b*llshit. He's a young chap thats to good to be sitting on the bench with us. He proved how good he was at Birmingham voted best keeper in th league last season and rightly so. In my opinion Hart never did anything wrong to get dropped at City in the first place, He should be our number 1. The only way to improve him is to give him games.

 

[kiiiki]

Given said: 'To discuss now would be a little disrespectful to the goalkeepers they have already. Arsenal are a fantastic club, it's just too soon.'
---------------------------

I think he's just putting pressure on Mancini, cant see City selling him to Arsenal even if he put in transfer request....that would be just stupid

 

[Aussie!]

Given said: 'To discuss now would be a little disrespectful to the goalkeepers they have already. Arsenal are a fantastic club, it's just too soon.'
---------------------------

I think he's just putting pressure on Mancini, cant see City selling him to Arsenal even if he put in transfer request....that would be just stupid

Giving the club an ultimatum (sort of) is a no-no.
If he did in fact say that then, bye.

 

[Lazerboyblue]

Re: Given Off ?

Celtic.

If Hart ends up in goal on Saturday and Shay is ditched, i'd love to see him in goal for Celtic.

 

[sweep]

Of course he'll respect the manager's decision, he's under contract. The wording might have been very slightly more diplomatic but, spin it any way you like, he's saying exactly the same as you've been slagging Hart off for the last few weeks yet you defend him purely because he's Irish.

For me, there's nothing between them in terms of ability right now and while Hart has years of development ahead of him, Given isn't going to get any better and has had a nasty, and likely recurrent, injury. If I had to choose, Hart wins.

Hart has constantly moaned to the press, Given answered it, but made the point that he genuinely wants to stay and fight, Hart doesn't sound as commited.
Of course he'll respect the decision..nothing to do with his contract, players like Tevez, like Robinho..etc didn't respect their managers decisions, fuck it there's a list as long as England filled with brat type players that didn't respect the managers decisions. Contract or no contract.

And don't talk to me about saying it because he's Irish, half of ye all want Hart to start purely because he's young and English, not because he's better. The amount of posts I've read that say Given's good, nothing between them, but Hart's the future and should start. Or something to that tone.

And all these so called expert doctors opinons are different to the actual specialists themselves. The reason surgery was done on Given's shoulder was to stop it from happening again, something that has been very succesfull in the past, especially with the likes of rugby players, the likes of Brian O Driscoll got an awful dislocation after being dumped on his head in 05, had surgery on it and took much longer to recover than Given, and has no problem with it since. It sounds to me that some people are genuinely hopefull that the injury is worse than it is.
Keepers are Hart's age are very suspect, keepers at Given's age are top of their game or nearing it.

Look at the likes of United and Van Der Sar, he's 39, and they've had him as their number one for years, they could have gone for a youngster with potential, like they tried with Foster, but as always they don't do so well and are moved on. They could, to an extent have anyone, and the likes of Van Der Sar have beaten off the young English promises that have been the likes of Foster. You don't go and buy promising young keepers if you're looking for one to join a top 4 (or aiming for) team, you go and buy an old enough keeper, there's a reason for that.

Young keeper make the odd mistake, so what, Given makes mistakes. As for bringing the likes of united into it, they've had some right shite keepers in recent years yet never seriously gone for Given.

 

[marco]

Re: Given Off ?

didn't given say when hart came back the competition was healthy and he was prepared to fight for his place, after that interview i would let him go

 

[stonerblue]

Hilarious thread this, Hart demands to start and isn't he great, a sign of his drive and ambition. Given demands to start and he can fuck off. Hart has been whinging non stop for months now while Given has kept his head low and gone about his business, I don't blame him at all for fighting his corner. Given's a team player and wouldn't have opened his mouth if it wasn't for Hart's inability to shut his.

Finally, someone must've read my rant about Hart from Sunday.

 

[Ragnarok]

Hilarious thread this, Hart demands to start and isn't he great, a sign of his drive and ambition. Given demands to start and he can fuck off. Hart has been whinging non stop for months now while Given has kept his head low and gone about his business, I don't blame him at all for fighting his corner. Given's a team player and wouldn't have opened his mouth if it wasn't for Hart's inability to shut his.

Finally, someone must've read my rant about Hart from Sunday.

This, this and a million times this.When Hart said the same comments as Given, it was down to his ambition and drive , but when given says it, he is being arrogant,etc.After all the matches with exemplary service Given has given us,most fans are telling him to fuck off as if he is a absolute nobody.
When Given joined the club , he displaced Hart because he was better than Hart and still is while Hart is only improving.Hart has had one good season, while given has been a top goalkeeper for many many years wherever he has played.Yes, i agree that Hart is the future of the club, but he is the future while Given is the present.It is crucial that at this time we need an experienced goalkeeper who will not bow under the extreme pressure this season.Nothing wrong with loaning Hart out for a couple of seasons until Given retires or his ability deteriorates , he will only improve and get experienced.

I am even going as far to say that if Hart is our no 1 this season, we wont win a thing.I can guarantee that he will crumble under extreme pressure.

 

[PaleBlue]

Given said: 'To discuss now would be a little disrespectful to the goalkeepers they have already. Arsenal are a fantastic club, it's just too soon.'
---------------------------

I think he's just putting pressure on Mancini, cant see City selling him to Arsenal even if he put in transfer request....that would be just stupid

Giving the club an ultimatum (sort of) is a no-no.
If he did in fact say that then, bye.

Have to agree - if he wants to sulk he can clear off. When he got injured last season it dropped us right in the sh1t, short memory there Shay. Be professional or be elsewhere.