ChesterRdBlue
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I'd still go for Hart over Given. I'm not convinced by either of them though.
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Given or Hart
- Thread starter allyboy
- Start date
rickmcfc
Well-Known Member
ArabFan12 said:GIVEN - Hart didn't give me confidence yesterday. Given has far more experience than Hart in direct and communicating with his defence.
For me Given, while Hart comes in the cups and some league games.
But Given is just way better than Hart atm.
Agree 100%. Did not play well yesterday.
JohnMaddocksAxe
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For all thoose talking of how good Given's shot stopping is in comparison to Hart's (something I disagree with anyway), are you taking into account all those shots that are quite close to Hart where he makes a routine save, but where Given does the Hollywood arching of the back and tips it over/round the post because a) that is his style and b) he is too small to make certain types of routine saves that other keepers make.
And what about the 'shot stopping' that Joe Hart displayed last year at Birmingham.
Save after save at full stretch. Not just good saves, great saves. And not only that, but saves which are physically impossible for Given to make, given his lack of stature.
The 'Given is a world class shot stopper' argument is a myth.
Given is a world class shot stopper for his size. Compared to other keepers of the same size.
Compared to 6'4 and above keepers of good ability, Given becomes an above average shot stopper but nothing more. David James and the like made several saves a month that prevented goals that Given can just do nothing about. That's not to blame Given and anyone analysing the goals doesn't blame him as it looks like he tries his best and extends fully. But he still lets goals in that Hart et al would have a good chance of saving.
And he is far too 'Hollywood' at times, which has served over the years to exaggerate this 'shot stopper' reputation.
Given is a very good keeper. But he isn't as good as Joe Hart imo. Especially when you consider Given's glaring weaknesses which result in him being supergled to his line. What's more, and people will disagree, he wasn't better than Joe Hart when he arrived and Hughes shat on Hart in his constant search for a scape goat.
Add in the fact that Hart will be the best keeper in the land for the next ten or more years, whilst Given will be retiring in a few years and it seems to me that the only rational option is to play Hart.
And what about the 'shot stopping' that Joe Hart displayed last year at Birmingham.
Save after save at full stretch. Not just good saves, great saves. And not only that, but saves which are physically impossible for Given to make, given his lack of stature.
The 'Given is a world class shot stopper' argument is a myth.
Given is a world class shot stopper for his size. Compared to other keepers of the same size.
Compared to 6'4 and above keepers of good ability, Given becomes an above average shot stopper but nothing more. David James and the like made several saves a month that prevented goals that Given can just do nothing about. That's not to blame Given and anyone analysing the goals doesn't blame him as it looks like he tries his best and extends fully. But he still lets goals in that Hart et al would have a good chance of saving.
And he is far too 'Hollywood' at times, which has served over the years to exaggerate this 'shot stopper' reputation.
Given is a very good keeper. But he isn't as good as Joe Hart imo. Especially when you consider Given's glaring weaknesses which result in him being supergled to his line. What's more, and people will disagree, he wasn't better than Joe Hart when he arrived and Hughes shat on Hart in his constant search for a scape goat.
Add in the fact that Hart will be the best keeper in the land for the next ten or more years, whilst Given will be retiring in a few years and it seems to me that the only rational option is to play Hart.
TurnUpTheMoon
Well-Known Member
Mr. Hart.
Zin 'messiah' Zimmer
Well-Known Member
Their has probably been one truly great goalkeeper in the prem In the past 20 years, sure their has been vey good keepers but out of all that can be mentioned one is true goal keeping legend, Rudolph could of played in any club side in world football and been the difference of 10/15 points per year, joe in my opinion will be that good, he's 23 and already pushing a guy who has 15 years experience at the top and who for me is regarded as a top 3 keeper in the prem, even with his short comings. There can be no sentiment in success, joe needs to find his feet with our new look defence, in thel long run it will benefit us all if that decision is taken now.
leighton
Well-Known Member
Shay has the consistancy that Hart has yet to show year after year after year after year. 1 good season by Hart or Givens last 10 seasons. Let me think about that it has to be Shay for years he keep up a poor Newcastle defence together. Since his move he has done no wrong yet because Hart had 1 good season he should now be number 1. Harts time will come but not this season at the club. Given is a great organiser of the defence which Hart lacks at the moment.
Time will tell no matter who misses out there will be clubs looking to take either of them on loan or buy them outright. Look at Arsenal they are in the market for a keeper maybe whoever misses out may end up playing Champions league football this year.
Time will tell no matter who misses out there will be clubs looking to take either of them on loan or buy them outright. Look at Arsenal they are in the market for a keeper maybe whoever misses out may end up playing Champions league football this year.
darrenwassall
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spot onleighton said:Shay has the consistancy that Hart has yet to show year after year after year after year. 1 good season by Hart or Givens last 10 seasons. Let me think about that it has to be Shay for years he keep up a poor Newcastle defence together. Since his move he has done no wrong yet because Hart had 1 good season he should now be number 1. Harts time will come but not this season at the club. Given is a great organiser of the defence which Hart lacks at the moment.
Time will tell no matter who misses out there will be clubs looking to take either of them on loan or buy them outright. Look at Arsenal they are in the market for a keeper maybe whoever misses out may end up playing Champions league football this year.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.aggbot.com/docs/link.php?id=10211449&f=1&c=45" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.aggbot.com/docs/link.php?id= ... 9&f=1&c=45</a>
To me it appears that Hart isnt willing to fight much and expects that the No. 1 spot be handed to him on a platter.And if that doesnt happen he will go somewhere where it does.
Shay Given is not worried about losing his Manchester City place, while Joe Hart admits he will consider his future if he is not number one.
The two shot-stoppers will both be vying for a place in Roberto Mancini's first team, as big-spending City look to break into the Premier League's top four and even challenge for the title.
Hart, 23, spent last season on loan at Birmingham and quickly established himself as first-choice at St Andrews, going on to have an impressive campaign.
Given, meanwhile, started 35 league games and only missed the last three matches because he dislocated his shoulder against Arsenal.
The 34-year-old Republic of Ireland international does not fear the competition from Hart, and revealed the two keepers have a good relationship.
"Joe is eager to establish himself for City and England but I have that hunger as well," he told The People.
"If you look at the other top goalkeepers in the Premier League like Edwin van der Sar, Brad Friedel and David James, they're all in their late 30s or even 40.
"Joe is a very good keeper and he proved that last season at Birmingham. He had a fantastic year, was player of the season there and he will quite rightly feel that he should be playing now.
"But I was bitterly disappointed to miss the last three games of last season and I am as desperate as anyone to start the opening game.
"I knew I was joining a club with huge ambitions and if you look through all areas of the squad, there is competition for every place. That's how it should be at a top team.
"It will give both of us an extra edge and I'm looking forward to it.
"It's definitely good to have that rivalry now Joe is back at the club but at 34 I am an experienced goalkeeper and I don't worry about an error costing me my place in the team."
Hart was part of the England squad which woefully crashed out of the World Cup this summer, although he played no part in the tournament despite the disastrous error from Robert Green against the USA.
He is keen to get more pitch-time under his belt and hopes he can do enough to play a part in City's campaign, despite his positive relationship with Given.
He added: "I have a great relationship with Shay. He came in the January before last and came straight in for me. I thought he was a good guy and I felt I did my best for him.
"We've got a good relationship. It's not even discussed between us, it's down to the manager.
"We're both doing our best to catch his eye and play. We're both the kind of people who will get on with it. That's what I admire a lot about Shay he'll play on regardless.
"But this is a big season for me and I intend to do everything I can to make sure it's a success.
"All I want to do is play but if that's not the case then I'll have to reconsider what's going on.
"At the moment, I'm just really concentrating on getting that No.1 spot after Birmingham gave me a chance last season."
To me it appears that Hart isnt willing to fight much and expects that the No. 1 spot be handed to him on a platter.And if that doesnt happen he will go somewhere where it does.