God

[tonea2003]

That's fine but (almost) everyone who compares belief in god with belief in fairies (in the context of lack of evidence) do so with regards to proving a negative, whether they're conscious of this or not.

BTW, just because Fairies fill no void (according to you) doesn't render them extinct. What void do birds fill? None. Yet they exist.

Anyway, you're saying that gaps in knowledge allow for a god to possibly exist. You can say the exact same thing about fairies. We don't know everything therefore the belief in fairies and the belief in God are akin to each other. I'm not saying that it disproves a god of some kind but that doesn't stop the comparison being a valid one.

-- Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:17 pm --



What? existence isn't dependant upon the mind. Besides, for many many many years the universe did exist without life. Did it therefore not exist?

As for you Einstein quote. If you read the letter from which this quote is lifted you can see how he defines religion. He basically defined it as 'how we (ought to) live our lives'. I'd say "philosophy" would be a more apt word to use... tho the quote would lose some of it 'zing'

"Religion is concerned with man's attitude toward nature at large, with the establishing of ideals for the individual and communal life, and with mutual human relationship"

It actually is. We are talking about human believes and the human mind. To us, the universe does not exist until life was created. Although we know it existed, but thats because we are alive. You see. If we were never alive we would of never known about the existence of the universe therefore it did not exist.

i've heard some tosh in my time......

 

[BulgarianPride]

Why do you want people to tell you why you should believe?. I don't care if you do or don't. Nobody should except you.

maybe i should have put it another way, i'm intrigued why you will always believe and with such a strong statement like that maybe you can tell why i should
How sure are you that we just expire when we die? Have you died before? Tell me, are you 100% sure we just expire? Your body does, but what happens to your mind/soul?

i'm not sure but the evidence i have says that's the most likely outcome.
i have yet to see proof of afterlife/souls or anything else spiritual for that matter but i'm open to evidence if you have it

Why shouldn't i always believe in god? My believe is not hurting anyone. I am a "scientific" person but i will always believe. I got my own personal reasons for doing so.
but you come a open public forum, people will respond and ask questions if you make declaration. if they are personal keep it that way and say nowt![/quote]

When i was 3 i got hit by a bus. Three nights before this my mum had nightmares involving her dead grandmother(god bless her) screaming my name. After i got hit and when i saw my mum, i told her "god saved me". I was 3, and nobody though me about god/jesus.

Every time i was sick i WANTED my parents to take me to church. I spend hours there they couldn't even force me out. They just waited until i wanted to leave. I was about 3-5 years old and every time i would feel better. Now when i do go back in Bulgaria and enter the same churches i went to when i was a kid i get goose bumps and i can stay there for days. I haven't read the Bible. So i am no too religious, i just believe and it makes me feel good.<br /><br />-- Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:43 am --<br /><br />

It actually is. We are talking about human believes and the human mind. To us, the universe does not exist until life was created. Although we know it existed, but thats because we are alive. You see. If we were never alive we would of never known about the existence of the universe therefore it did not exist.

i've heard some tosh in my time......

Hey. My brain is fired from studying for finals (electronics engineering student) so it might not make sense(to me) in a couple of weeks.

 

[tonea2003]

Why do you want people to tell you why you should believe?. I don't care if you do or don't. Nobody should except you.

maybe i should have put it another way, i'm intrigued why you will always believe and with such a strong statement like that maybe you can tell why i should
How sure are you that we just expire when we die? Have you died before? Tell me, are you 100% sure we just expire? Your body does, but what happens to your mind/soul?

i'm not sure but the evidence i have says that's the most likely outcome.
i have yet to see proof of afterlife/souls or anything else spiritual for that matter but i'm open to evidence if you have it

Why shouldn't i always believe in god? My believe is not hurting anyone. I am a "scientific" person but i will always believe. I got my own personal reasons for doing so.
but you come a open public forum, people will respond and ask questions if you make declaration. if they are personal keep it that way and say nowt![/quote]

When i was 3 i got hit by a bus. Three nights before this my mum had nightmares involving her dead grandmother(god bless her) screaming my name. After i got hit and when i saw my mum, i told her "god saved me". I was 3, and nobody though me about god/jesus.

Every time i was sick i WANTED my parents to take me to church. I spend hours there they couldn't even force me out. They just waited until i wanted to leave. I was about 3-5 years old and every time i would feel better. Now when i do go back in Bulgaria and enter the same churches i went to when i was a kid i get goose bumps and i can stay there for days. I haven't read the Bible. So i am no too religious, i just believe and it makes me feel good.

interesting story but why would a god(any good one that is) allow a three year old get hit by a bus, get hurt( i assume you were) give massive emotional stress to your family as well as the bus driver just so you can get a revelation at 3
not very nice is he/she/it, not someone i would like to be associated with i'm afraid
-- Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:43 am --

i've heard some tosh in my time......

Hey. My brain is fired from studying for finals (electronics engineering student) so it might not make sense(to me) in a couple of weeks.

c'mon give me a chance english please :-)

 

[ElanJo]

That's fine but (almost) everyone who compares belief in god with belief in fairies (in the context of lack of evidence) do so with regards to proving a negative, whether they're conscious of this or not.

BTW, just because Fairies fill no void (according to you) doesn't render them extinct. What void do birds fill? None. Yet they exist.

You've misunderstood my point. The concept of the void is a gap in our understanding of our surroundings. Thus, God can fill a void because God fills a gap in our understanding of creation, but fairies cannot as they DON'T fill in a gap of our understanding about the world in which we live.
Birds don't need to fill a void, simply because they are plainly shown to exist through empirical evidence.

Anyway, you're saying that gaps in knowledge allow for a god to possibly exist. You can say the exact same thing about fairies. We don't know everything therefore the belief in fairies and the belief in God are akin to each other. I'm not saying that it disproves a god of some kind but that doesn't stop the comparison being a valid one.

If you can tell me the gaps of human understanding that the traditional myth of a fairy "illuminates", then I'll give you the point.

On second thought I concede the point about birds and the void. I was going to suggest an animal that we're not yet aware of but we could find strange footprints which would create a void in knowledge (what created these?) to be filled by discovering this new animal.

You're assuming that we have knowledge of all our gaps in knowledge. Fairies could fill one of these gaps that we are not yet aware of. (just as we are not yet aware of a special kind of footprint that an as yet undiscovered animal is currently making)

PS. I see no reason why fairies should be based strictly on traditional tales (responsible for missing objects etc.). You're not basing "god" strictly on Yahweh.

EDIT: This is all getting a bit "mental masturbation" for me. I can see your point and it's a valid one. The thing I took issue with is perhaps more the way your framed your claim:

"Those presenting an argument that a belief in a God-like figrue is akin to a belief in fairies are just plain wrong."

"presenting AN argument" suggests any argument comparing the belief in god with the belief in fairies. The valid argument here is with regards to justifiable belief and proving a negative. Unless we're talking about "Magic Men", such as Yahweh et al, the other comparison, which you take issue with, is not valid.

-- Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:09 pm --

What? existence isn't dependant upon the mind. Besides, for many many many years the universe did exist without life. Did it therefore not exist?

As for you Einstein quote. If you read the letter from which this quote is lifted you can see how he defines religion. He basically defined it as 'how we (ought to) live our lives'. I'd say "philosophy" would be a more apt word to use... tho the quote would lose some of it 'zing'

"Religion is concerned with man's attitude toward nature at large, with the establishing of ideals for the individual and communal life, and with mutual human relationship"

It actually is. We are talking about human believes and the human mind. To us, the universe does not exist until life was created. Although we know it existed, but thats because we are alive. You see. If we were never alive we would of never known about the existence of the universe therefore it did not exist.

How old are you? Are you under 29? If so, are you telling me that I did not exist before you were born?

 

[Bigga]

"7 days" depends on whether you take it 'literally'! Do you mean the definition of a 'day' in modern meaning or the Biblical meaning? Do you mean 7 days as in 24 hrs a day? Or do you mean 7 million years?

What is the biblical meaning of a day then? And how does saying 7 million years (or 7 whatever) make it any better?

For a so called 'intelligent' guy, you ain't half stupid!

And tiresome!

 

[ElanJo]

What is the biblical meaning of a day then? And how does saying 7 million years (or 7 whatever) make it any better?

For a so called 'intelligent' guy, you ain't half stupid!

And tiresome!

Please enlighten this half stupid, tiresome, mere mortal.

 

[Bigga]

Why do you want people to tell you why you should believe?. I don't care if you do or don't. Nobody should except you.

maybe i should have put it another way, i'm intrigued why you will always believe and with such a strong statement like that maybe you can tell why i should
How sure are you that we just expire when we die? Have you died before? Tell me, are you 100% sure we just expire? Your body does, but what happens to your mind/soul?

i'm not sure but the evidence i have says that's the most likely outcome.
i have yet to see proof of afterlife/souls or anything else spiritual for that matter but i'm open to evidence if you have it

Why shouldn't i always believe in god? My believe is not hurting anyone. I am a "scientific" person but i will always believe. I got my own personal reasons for doing so.
but you come a open public forum, people will respond and ask questions if you make declaration. if they are personal keep it that way and say nowt![/quote]

When i was 3 i got hit by a bus. Three nights before this my mum had nightmares involving her dead grandmother(god bless her) screaming my name. After i got hit and when i saw my mum, i told her "god saved me". I was 3, and nobody though me about god/jesus.

Every time i was sick i WANTED my parents to take me to church. I spend hours there they couldn't even force me out. They just waited until i wanted to leave. I was about 3-5 years old and every time i would feel better. Now when i do go back in Bulgaria and enter the same churches i went to when i was a kid i get goose bumps and i can stay there for days. I haven't read the Bible. So i am no too religious, i just believe and it makes me feel good.

-- Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:43 am --

i've heard some tosh in my time......

Hey. My brain is fired from studying for finals (electronics engineering student) so it might not make sense(to me) in a couple of weeks.

Broken down that sounds very much like "out of sight, out of mind".

 

[Rushton121]

 

[Bojinov The Bull]

First thing to say is i'm an atheist! I don't believe in god at all but did philosophy of religion to A-Level to see what the other side of the 'argument' was like!

It is pretty obvious God doesn't exist, it is similar to the cultures in the past praying to the sun and thor, zeus etc... There is something within certain people (quite a lot really!) where they feel they need a divine purpose and direction in life, they can't just be here to reproduce and then die like every other animal on the planet, they are special! In reality they aren't! I could ramble on for a long time with proof that God doesn't exist going in to carbon dating and how there are rocks that are MILLIONS of years old not just a few thousand years old when God was said to have created the planet but i'll resist the temptation!

However, I do believe that church as a social gathering is good, it promotes family and social values in the community as well as bringing people together! I don't believe the traditional church (especially catholic!) does this anymore as its tarnished itself forever with the massive amount of paedophiles that are in them and its interest in making money above all else! There are however newer, smaller churches opening all the time!

 

[lloydie]

Why do you want people to tell you why you should believe?. I don't care if you do or don't. Nobody should except you.

maybe i should have put it another way, i'm intrigued why you will always believe and with such a strong statement like that maybe you can tell why i should
How sure are you that we just expire when we die? Have you died before? Tell me, are you 100% sure we just expire? Your body does, but what happens to your mind/soul?

i'm not sure but the evidence i have says that's the most likely outcome.
i have yet to see proof of afterlife/souls or anything else spiritual for that matter but i'm open to evidence if you have it

Why shouldn't i always believe in god? My believe is not hurting anyone. I am a "scientific" person but i will always believe. I got my own personal reasons for doing so.
but you come a open public forum, people will respond and ask questions if you make declaration. if they are personal keep it that way and say nowt![/quote]

When i was 3 i got hit by a bus. Three nights before this my mum had nightmares involving her dead grandmother(god bless her) screaming my name. After i got hit and when i saw my mum, i told her "god saved me". I was 3, and nobody though me about god/jesus.

Every time i was sick i WANTED my parents to take me to church. I spend hours there they couldn't even force me out. They just waited until i wanted to leave. I was about 3-5 years old and every time i would feel better. Now when i do go back in Bulgaria and enter the same churches i went to when i was a kid i get goose bumps and i can stay there for days. I haven't read the Bible. So i am no too religious, i just believe and it makes me feel good.

-- Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:43 am --

i've heard some tosh in my time......

Hey. My brain is fired from studying for finals (electronics engineering student) so it might not make sense(to me) in a couple of weeks.

This is just not fair! I want one, I want one, I want one! *stamps feet*