God

[mammutly]

Well that's it, I am NEVER shagging a bird in the arse ever again!

It's no way to maximise your inclusive fitness and I'm pretty sure God doesn't really approve either.

;-)

 

[lloydie]

Was it my post about NDE and why laughable? and it was taken from the said Authors book.

Depends. Did you post the Mail online link??

Nope, that was me and I'm sorry that you find it laughable that people do serious research into things that are unexplained. Why not tell you it "may be caused by an electrical surge" ? Do you know as an absolute certainty that it isn't? If so I suggest you publish your proof and you'll be the hailed as the discoverer of the most earth shattering news, ever in the history of ever. I suspect god will not provide you with this proof as this would diminish his required mystery. Your quite entitled to your view but you seriously underestimate the power of the human mind if you think your imagination is incapable of this leap.
You may like to look at my post again which merely suggests that there may be a biological explanation for the phenomena. It is not so far from NDE to the "Incubus and Succubus" phenomena which for many centuries were ascribed to devils and demons but have now been induced in lab conditions. Further, many Shamen and experimenters report out of body experiences when using brain chemical altering substances or using meditation techniques. You seem to have a closed mind on this so I'll leave you to whatever makes you happy, my suspicion is that the cause of the effect will some day come to be understood without the need for an other worldly explanation. and, moreover, this will not make your life worthless, regardless of the emotional attachment you have to your spiritual self justification.
You are perfectly entitled to your beliefs but to sneer at science for trying to expand our knowledge or understanding is rather more laughable than suggesting that your personal experience is subjective and not empirical.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:36 pm --<br /><br />

Well that's it, I am NEVER shagging a bird in the arse ever again!

It's no way to maximise your inclusive fitness and I'm pretty sure God doesn't really approve either.

;-)

Prob why she kept screaming "OH GOD, OH GOD" repeatedly though :)

 

[chestervegasblue]

Well if you're looking for a definition of God, or something that tells you what God is like (which I guess is how define is defined!), then look at the gospels, because they talk about God revealing himself to mankind in human form. If you look at the life he leads, he does not promote violence, he does not look down on those who society looks down on, he dedicates himself to saving all mankind...even to death on a cross.

This will probably be met with abuse, ridicule etc, but to be honest I don't really care, because I'm not saying this for my benefit.

There is historical evidence (<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus</a>) that Jesus lived on earth and was executed by the Romans. Even the Qur'an recognises him as a prophet.

I'll admit that there's an argument that says that Jesus wasn't really dead, or that he was never put in the tomb, or that the disciples stole his body and pretended that he was alive. But Romans were professional killers. They didn't establish an empire by semi-killing people, in fact if the soldiers hadn't done their job of crucifying Jesus to death, then they probably would have been put to death themselves.

And if Jesus' body wasn't in that tomb, and the disciples were claiming he was alive, surely the authorities (Roman or Jewish) would have produced his body to quell such claims.

But what for me is the most convincing piece of evidence is that the disciples later died because they believed that Jesus rose from the dead. Nobody dies for a lie. If they'd stolen the body, and been threatened with death, human nature dictates that the body would have been produced over dying for something completely made up. Who would sacrifice their own life for the sake of something that they knew to be false? And if Jesus did rise from the dead, then that makes him God.

I'm not here to bash anyone over the head with my Bible, I'm just presenting a Christian perspective to this discussion. I'm more than happy to take questions and comments.

 

[NPBlue]

Well if you're looking for a definition of God, or something that tells you what God is like (which I guess is how define is defined!), then look at the gospels, because they talk about God revealing himself to mankind in human form. If you look at the life he leads, he does not promote violence, he does not look down on those who society looks down on, he dedicates himself to saving all mankind...even to death on a cross.

This will probably be met with abuse, ridicule etc, but to be honest I don't really care, because I'm not saying this for my benefit.

There is historical evidence (<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus</a>) that Jesus lived on earth and was executed by the Romans. Even the Qur'an recognises him as a prophet.

I'll admit that there's an argument that says that Jesus wasn't really dead, or that he was never put in the tomb, or that the disciples stole his body and pretended that he was alive. But Romans were professional killers. They didn't establish an empire by semi-killing people, in fact if the soldiers hadn't done their job of crucifying Jesus to death, then they probably would have been put to death themselves.

And if Jesus' body wasn't in that tomb, and the disciples were claiming he was alive, surely the authorities (Roman or Jewish) would have produced his body to quell such claims.

But what for me is the most convincing piece of evidence is that the disciples later died because they believed that Jesus rose from the dead. Nobody dies for a lie. If they'd stolen the body, and been threatened with death, human nature dictates that the body would have been produced over dying for something completely made up. Who would sacrifice their own life for the sake of something that they knew to be false? And if Jesus did rise from the dead, then that makes him God.

I'm not here to bash anyone over the head with my Bible, I'm just presenting a Christian perspective to this discussion. I'm more than happy to take questions and comments.

I have expressed my belief on here on several occasions, and the anger I have received back is, well, surprising really.

Dunno why, but that's the way it is.

Express your belief in God, and the none believers come out and crucify you!

 

[Bigga]

Depends. Did you post the Mail online link??

Nope, that was me and I'm sorry that you find it laughable that people do serious research into things that are unexplained. Why not tell you it "may be caused by an electrical surge" ? Do you know as an absolute certainty that it isn't? If so I suggest you publish your proof and you'll be the hailed as the discoverer of the most earth shattering news, ever in the history of ever. I suspect god will not provide you with this proof as this would diminish his required mystery. Your quite entitled to your view but you seriously underestimate the power of the human mind if you think your imagination is incapable of this leap.
You may like to look at my post again which merely suggests that there may be a biological explanation for the phenomena. It is not so far from NDE to the "Incubus and Succubus" phenomena which for many centuries were ascribed to devils and demons but have now been induced in lab conditions. Further, many Shamen and experimenters report out of body experiences when using brain chemical altering substances or using meditation techniques. You seem to have a closed mind on this so I'll leave you to whatever makes you happy, my suspicion is that the cause of the effect will some day come to be understood without the need for an other worldly explanation. and, moreover, this will not make your life worthless, regardless of the emotional attachment you have to your spiritual self justification.
You are perfectly entitled to your beliefs but to sneer at science for trying to expand our knowledge or understanding is rather more laughable than suggesting that your personal experience is subjective and not empirical.

Are you sure?? You can't contradict yourself so readily. By your own admittance, there have been studies of the phenomena all leading the same conclusion stated by the patients. I have merely added my own statement.

There is no possible connection between 'an electrical charge' and 'vivid imaginations'. None whatsoever. That, in itself, is pure speculation. And laughable. Hence the reason for my 'offence' riposte to your article.

I'll tell you what IS interesting in the article, that everyone tells the same story of being 'called back' and the fearing of the end of their time on earth dissipating. I can concur with that.

So here's my question: why does the individual brain travel the same path as everyone else? "You are not ready!"?? Why these words? We all have different experiences in Life, so why are we not told different things? How can experience of this event be 'subjective' if we all get told the same thing?

Surely THIS is the most intriguing question?

 

[malg]

Just tried to read about 10 pages of this thread and I'm totally lost. I'd like to thank ElanJo for the picture above as it sums up how I now feel......

 

[Lucky Toma]

I havent looked at this thread for awhile. Has anyone found out if God exists yet or not?

 

[Ally.P]

Well if you're looking for a definition of God, or something that tells you what God is like (which I guess is how define is defined!), then look at the gospels, because they talk about God revealing himself to mankind in human form. If you look at the life he leads, he does not promote violence, he does not look down on those who society looks down on, he dedicates himself to saving all mankind...even to death on a cross.

This will probably be met with abuse, ridicule etc, but to be honest I don't really care, because I'm not saying this for my benefit.

There is historical evidence (<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus</a>) that Jesus lived on earth and was executed by the Romans. Even the Qur'an recognises him as a prophet.

I'll admit that there's an argument that says that Jesus wasn't really dead, or that he was never put in the tomb, or that the disciples stole his body and pretended that he was alive. But Romans were professional killers. They didn't establish an empire by semi-killing people, in fact if the soldiers hadn't done their job of crucifying Jesus to death, then they probably would have been put to death themselves.

And if Jesus' body wasn't in that tomb, and the disciples were claiming he was alive, surely the authorities (Roman or Jewish) would have produced his body to quell such claims.

But what for me is the most convincing piece of evidence is that the disciples later died because they believed that Jesus rose from the dead. Nobody dies for a lie. If they'd stolen the body, and been threatened with death, human nature dictates that the body would have been produced over dying for something completely made up. Who would sacrifice their own life for the sake of something that they knew to be false? And if Jesus did rise from the dead, then that makes him God.

I'm not here to bash anyone over the head with my Bible, I'm just presenting a Christian perspective to this discussion. I'm more than happy to take questions and comments.

I have expressed my belief on here on several occasions, and the anger I have received back is, well, surprising really.

Dunno why, but that's the way it is.

Express your belief in God, and the none believers come out and crucify you!

Fascinating post. Thank you.

This bit particularly struck me.

WE die, but in reality we continue to live as complete human beings in the spiritual world. We take everything with us when we die EXCEPT our physical body - our spirit lives on in complete human form.
The difference with the Lord is that He left nothing behind in the tomb because by that time He had become completely divine.
So while it is true that Jesus is God and that the trinity is within Him, the new Church teaches that this was not always the case. When He was born, His soul was divine - He had no human father. But He had a human mother so that He could live in this world and gradually become one with the divine within Him – a Man who became God. That is why He said after the resurrection that all power had been given to Him in heaven and on earth. Now, He is visible to our minds eye.

This is my take on the resurrection. (as a believer) ;-p

 

[The Frontzeck]

Well if you're looking for a definition of God, or something that tells you what God is like (which I guess is how define is defined!), then look at the gospels, because they talk about God revealing himself to mankind in human form. If you look at the life he leads, he does not promote violence, he does not look down on those who society looks down on, he dedicates himself to saving all mankind...even to death on a cross.
The above paragraph is very confusing, you start talking about god and I think you must be referring to Jesus in your last line. Are you suggesting they are the one and the same? I do not think you can be referring to God when you say ‘he does not promote violence’ as he killed everyone on the planet! Children and baby’s included who could not possibly have had the chance to sin. The first born sons of Egyptians, why did they deserve to die? God sanctioned the killing of women or if virgins they could be spared and raped. I think one of the most perverse things he did was to tell Abraham to murder his son Isaac but that’s just my opinion. I could go on, my point is God very much promoted violence and death. Don’t tell me.... he moves in mysterious ways.

This will probably be met with abuse, ridicule etc, but to be honest I don't really care, because I'm not saying this for my benefit.

There is historical evidence (<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus</a>) that Jesus lived on earth and was executed by the Romans. Even the Qur'an recognises him as a prophet.

There is no historical evidence that stands up to any sort of verifiable scrutiny that Jesus ever existed, the church would do anything to find a scrap of credible evidence but so far NOTHING! If he was so convincing at the time would he not have convinced all the Jews around him with his miracles? There would be no Jews just Christians, why did they not believe he was the son of God and why do you believe it now 2000 years later?

I'll admit that there's an argument that says that Jesus wasn't really dead, or that he was never put in the tomb, or that the disciples stole his body and pretended that he was alive. But Romans were professional killers. They didn't establish an empire by semi-killing people, in fact if the soldiers hadn't done their job of crucifying Jesus to death, then they probably would have been put to death themselves.

And if Jesus' body wasn't in that tomb, and the disciples were claiming he was alive, surely the authorities (Roman or Jewish) would have produced his body to quell such claims.

But what for me is the most convincing piece of evidence is that the disciples later died because they believed that Jesus rose from the dead. Nobody dies for a lie. If they'd stolen the body, and been threatened with death, human nature dictates that the body would have been produced over dying for something completely made up. Who would sacrifice their own life for the sake of something that they knew to be false? And if Jesus did rise from the dead, then that makes him God.

I'm not here to bash anyone over the head with my Bible, I'm just presenting a Christian perspective to this discussion. I'm more than happy to take questions and comments.

chestervegasblue, an emotive subject - I hope I come across as respectful as to your opinion about God and Jesus as I would not want to offend.

 

[hilts]

I had a NDE of sorts. I fell off the Mitellegi Ridge of the Eiger. I was sure I was going to die ( still amazes me that I didn't). I remember thinking with absolute calm and certainty that I would die. There was no fear. All I have learned from that ( apart from always place an ice screw!) is that at the end, there is nothing to be afraid of.

That's what I got from where I was, M! No fear after you go what you go through. It's really bizarre!

I really honestly thought afterwards what on earth I was so scared of, before! Not fazed by the event of death in the slightest now.

you jammy sod wish i wasnt bricking it at the mere thought of it