Greta Thunberg

I’m getting ready to go to a wedding so I’m going to keep this brief.

Can you tell me what the harm is in turning our energy into clean and renewable?

As in if climate change proves to not be man’s fault or something we can change and we’ve got clean and renewable energy anyway, what the problem with it is going to be?

Even if you’re sceptical, even if you believe there’s other issues to consider, what’s the problem with turning green?

The earth has had to put up with worse than humans before correct, well maybe not you (joke btw), but we don’t want to go through the mass extinctions that the dinosaurs did, do we?

I really don’t see that argument. Yes the earth will be still here and life will go on in some capacity, if the climate gets so bad, but why do we want to get to that?

Let’s just say I’m wrong here and climate change is something we can’t help or is propaganda, it’s not but just for a moment imagine it is. If we switch to clean energy then what happens? Nothing, we’re left with an infinite supply of energy that we can use.

I have used the Pascallian wager argument on this in the past but then got pretty comprehensively school by someone knowledgeable about it. "What could go wrong?" can actually be answered by "theoretically quite an extreme amount of stuff".

The biggest and most convincing part of his reasoning is that the entire geopolitical and economic world as it currently stands is pretty much built around resource extraction with a specific emphasis on fossil fuels. We only have to look at the posturing towards the last bastion of non-Western control in the Gulf region, Iran, to see this.
 
I have used the Pascallian wager argument on this in the past but then got pretty comprehensively school by someone knowledgeable about it. "What could go wrong?" can actually be answered by "theoretically quite an extreme amount of stuff".

The biggest and most convincing part of his reasoning is that the entire geopolitical and economic world as it currently stands is pretty much built around resource extraction with a specific emphasis on fossil fuels. We only have to look at the posturing towards the last bastion of non-Western control in the Gulf region, Iran, to see this.
Correct.
And quite a few predicting that the most precious natural resource in the future will be fresh water.

The not too distant future.
 
I’m getting ready to go to a wedding so I’m going to keep this brief.

Can you tell me what the harm is in turning our energy into clean and renewable?

As in if climate change proves to not be man’s fault or something we can change and we’ve got clean and renewable energy anyway, what the problem with it is going to be?

Even if you’re sceptical, even if you believe there’s other issues to consider, what’s the problem with turning green?

I never said there was a problem, but there will be problems with the supply of metals to make batteries. There isn't enough and what there is is now largely controlled by China.
 
The earth has had to put up with worse than humans before correct, well maybe not you (joke btw), but we don’t want to go through the mass extinctions that the dinosaurs did, do we?

I really don’t see that argument. Yes the earth will be still here and life will go on in some capacity, if the climate gets so bad, but why do we want to get to that?

Let’s just say I’m wrong here and climate change is something we can’t help or is propaganda, it’s not but just for a moment imagine it is. If we switch to clean energy then what happens? Nothing, we’re left with an infinite supply of energy that we can use.

Mass extinction events have happened many times before and will continue regardless of mankind's efforts.
 
Mass extinction events have happened many times before and will continue regardless of mankind's efforts.

Is that the can do attitude that saw off the Germans during the blitz? Did that sort of defeatism carry the day at Agincourt? Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
 
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Mass extinction events have happened many times before and will continue regardless of mankind's efforts.

Perhaps. But have you considered the alternative?

I'd argue that the most powerful force in the history of Earth is not nature but instead a collective of human beings with the will to survive and prosper. When challenged and properly directed, our species can do miraculous things at a lightning pace. The ability to innovate has always been our greatest evolutionary strength. Unfortunately we're also lazy and egotistical so we have to be really have our backs against the wall to look past our tribal natures to achieve greatness.

What if we're not destined for extinction? What if, instead of being a species destined to eventually falter to natural forces or more likely our own hubris, what if instead we always manage to pull ourselves back from the brink?

Humans now inhabit every continent on this planet and indeed we have a permanent presence off our home world due to the ISS. "Space" is now a human colony, to a tiny degree. How many challenges have we had to overcome to get here? How many diseases, genocidal maniacs, nuclear threats and world changing events has our ancestors had to deal with for us to be sitting here now? Quite a lot when you think about it. We're pretty good at having sex and not dying which seems to be the measurement of success for species growth/continuation.

If you take an evidence based view on this, we've already survived various extinction level events from supervolcanoes to climate change to species extinction. Of course we have, that's how we're able to have this chat. What's to say that climate change won't be yet another transitional period for humanity where our economic, social and ethical system are rocked to their core but we endure like we always have? Seems more likely than the alternative.

I always think that people have an extremely pessimistic view of our species and its future and don't consider the idea that actually, we might be successful. We might colonise space, spread our seed across different Solar Systems and become a race that is multi-galactic thus almost impossible to wipe out. In my eyes it certainly seems more likely than the opposite view. Even if only 10 people survive, the species survives and repopulates with new lessons learnt. I can't see our future as anything but further evolution and adaptation. Technically OUR species might one day see its end but something that we'd recognise as evolving from homo sapien sapiens will be alive in a billion years.
 
Is that the can do attitude that saw off the Germans during the blitz? Did that sort of defeatism carry the day at Agincourt? Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Just facts Bob! But again you appear to be putting words in my mouth as I have no issue with people or countries reducing greenhouse gasses.
 
Perhaps. But have you considered the alternative?

I'd argue that the most powerful force in the history of Earth is not nature but instead a collective of human beings with the will to survive and prosper. When challenged and properly directed, our species can do miraculous things at a lightning pace. The ability to innovate has always been our greatest evolutionary strength. Unfortunately we're also lazy and egotistical so we have to be really have our backs against the wall to look past our tribal natures to achieve greatness.

What if we're not destined for extinction? What if, instead of being a species destined to eventually falter to natural forces or more likely our own hubris, what if instead we always manage to pull ourselves back from the brink?

Humans now inhabit every continent on this planet and indeed we have a permanent presence off our home world due to the ISS. "Space" is now a human colony, to a tiny degree. How many challenges have we had to overcome to get here? How many diseases, genocidal maniacs, nuclear threats and world changing events has our ancestors had to deal with for us to be sitting here now? Quite a lot when you think about it. We're pretty good at having sex and not dying which seems to be the measurement of success for species growth/continuation.

If you take an evidence based view on this, we've already survived various extinction level events from supervolcanoes to climate change to species extinction. Of course we have, that's how we're able to have this chat. What's to say that climate change won't be yet another transitional period for humanity where our economic, social and ethical system are rocked to their core but we endure like we always have? Seems more likely than the alternative.

I always think that people have an extremely pessimistic view of our species and its future and don't consider the idea that actually, we might be successful. We might colonise space, spread our seed across different Solar Systems and become a race that is multi-galactic thus almost impossible to wipe out. In my eyes it certainly seems more likely than the opposite view. Even if only 10 people survive, the species survives and repopulates with new lessons learnt. I can't see our future as anything but further evolution and adaptation. Technically OUR species might one day see its end but something that we'd recognise as evolving from homo sapien sapiens will be alive in a billion years.
If you read my second post in this thread you will see that you and I are singing from the same song sheet.
 
Shame that Greta doesn't appeal to China and India.
The West has had fridges, cars , power plants, you name it for years.
Sorry 3 billion people.
You cannot have those . . . Too dirty.
Chinese and Indian response.
Errmmm . FUCK RIGHT OFF.
 
No caveat,only a statement of fact.

It's far easier to show such concerns and be a champion of cause when you are afforded the opportunity and have no other worries in life.As I said,lucky girl.

No other worries in life? She has autism. I think that is the major contributing factor to her focus on one issue. Pretty low to try and paint her as a poor little rich girl,
 

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