Greta Thunberg

The increase in temperature is far beyond and far more rapid than what would naturally occur and is dangerous to go with it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-with-these-24-new-york-times-graphs.amp.html

There’s an infinite amount of content to find online but just read through the above.

Of course there is! Since records began is my favourite when mentioning the weather whats that about 200 years?! Wow earths been around for billions of years!
If the earth never changed there be still one mass land.

Just think about it earth been around about 4 billion years the continents I think started breaking up 170 odd million years ago. Last 4 billion years the earth had to put up with far worse than humans.
 
Called the cycle of the earth how did the earth look billions of years ago? With had an ice age with had this country like the tropics.

You're not wrong, of course.

The difference between then and now is to do with scale. The changes that you are talking about happened over the period of many hundreds of thousands/millions of years until a runaway effect took place. What we're seeing today is many thousands of years of climate change happen within about 50 years or so, which is extremely concerning.

The Earth's climate seems to be a very finely balanced thing. The introduction of only a small bit more carbon dioxide molecules into the atmosphere has started the slant. Human's only actually produce a very small amount of the overall CO2 in the atmosphere but it's enough to start the instability. Naturally produced CO2 is absorbed by various things on the planet ("carbon sinks") so that the equilibrium remains. An analogy for this is a glass of water. Let's say you have a 1 pint glass of water. Every hour you drink half a pint and every hour the glass gains half a pint of water. You're in a perfect balance and the glass never runs dry or overflows. Now let's say that instead of giving you half a pint of water every hour, you now get half a pint + 1ml. 1 millilitre of water is nothing compared to the pints and pints that are been poured into the glass every single day but given enough time, that 1ml sends the whole system out of whack and the glass overflows.

That's what's happening on Earth. Climate change is a globally studied issue, across a ton of seperate fields. It's not just climatology where we get our evidence from. There's evidence from physics, from astrophysics, from geology, from biologists or conservationists, etc. It is possibly now the best studied and most well funded scientific model in the history of the world - mainly because it has the potential to be the most damaging, in part because it's an extremely complicated subject that requires linking together thousands of little sub-systems into a big picture, and also in part of course because of the politics of the issue.

But with that funding has come rigorous debate, skepticism and discussion. I'd argue that climate change is also one of the most challenged scientific models that are currently in wide circulation too - and that's a good thing. Science needs constant challenging of models set in place in order to prove the correctness of its ideas. And climate change, for all of the challenge that has come from legitimate skeptics inside the scientific world who have actually sensible objections to parts of it, has still passed all of these and seems to explain the world around us better than any other model.

With science that's all we can do. We look at the world; experiment, observe and predict. When we come up with an idea that fits observed data, and most importantly can predict future data accurately then we adopt this idea until something that fits better comes along. Despite many attempts by many different groups, nothing has fit observational, experimental and predictive data better than the idea of anthropogical climate change. I wish it would. I'm pretty sure everybody does. The idea that actually we're not heading for a global crisis which will destroy whole economies and create millions of refugees while taxing the world's food and water supplies above breaking point is comfortable and is certain preferable. But we can't ignore what we see in the data, no matter how uncomfortable it is, we have to be intellectually honest.
 
I have confidence (blind faith obviously) that we’ll change in time to be more sustainable but unfortunately I don’t think we can prevent anything much in terms of climate change in the medium term so have to adapt (and the poorest will suffer most).

This lecture about the 3rd industrial revolution is filled with hope but also warnings about our future. Thought it was very interesting.

 
You're not wrong, of course.

The difference between then and now is to do with scale. The changes that you are talking about happened over the period of many hundreds of thousands/millions of years until a runaway effect took place. What we're seeing today is many thousands of years of climate change happen within about 50 years or so, which is extremely concerning.

The Earth's climate seems to be a very finely balanced thing. The introduction of only a small bit more carbon dioxide molecules into the atmosphere has started the slant. Human's only actually produce a very small amount of the overall CO2 in the atmosphere but it's enough to start the instability. Naturally produced CO2 is absorbed by various things on the planet ("carbon sinks") so that the equilibrium remains. An analogy for this is a glass of water. Let's say you have a 1 pint glass of water. Every hour you drink half a pint and every hour the glass gains half a pint of water. You're in a perfect balance and the glass never runs dry or overflows. Now let's say that instead of giving you half a pint of water every hour, you now get half a pint + 1ml. 1 millilitre of water is nothing compared to the pints and pints that are been poured into the glass every single day but given enough time, that 1ml sends the whole system out of whack and the glass overflows.

That's what's happening on Earth. Climate change is a globally studied issue, across a ton of seperate fields. It's not just climatology where we get our evidence from. There's evidence from physics, from astrophysics, from geology, from biologists or conservationists, etc. It is possibly now the best studied and most well funded scientific model in the history of the world - mainly because it has the potential to be the most damaging, in part because it's an extremely complicated subject that requires linking together thousands of little sub-systems into a big picture, and also in part of course because of the politics of the issue.

But with that funding has come rigorous debate, skepticism and discussion. I'd argue that climate change is also one of the most challenged scientific models that are currently in wide circulation too - and that's a good thing. Science needs constant challenging of models set in place in order to prove the correctness of its ideas. And climate change, for all of the challenge that has come from legitimate skeptics inside the scientific world who have actually sensible objections to parts of it, has still passed all of these and seems to explain the world around us better than any other model.

With science that's all we can do. We look at the world; experiment, observe and predict. When we come up with an idea that fits observed data, and most importantly can predict future data accurately then we adopt this idea until something that fits better comes along. Despite many attempts by many different groups, nothing has fit observational, experimental and predictive data better than the idea of anthropogical climate change. I wish it would. I'm pretty sure everybody does. The idea that actually we're not heading for a global crisis which will destroy whole economies and create millions of refugees while taxing the world's food and water supplies above breaking point is comfortable and is certain preferable. But we can't ignore what we see in the data, no matter how uncomfortable it is, we have to be intellectually honest.

Well argued but if you paid millions to companies to debunk climate warming they would come up with facts and figures in there favour.

Seems the biggest countries in the world don't give a toss about climate change. If this country went 100% clean it wouldn't make any difference Whats so ever. Electric cars biggest con in this climate change bullshit
 
Anyone who tries and plays down or diminishes the urgency of this matter is beyond ignorant and selfish.

There, I hope that helps.


No sorry that isnt good enough to explain why you responded in an obnoxious fashion.

I was just trying to put some context into the debate. Let me explain, no doubt climate change is occurring. The climate has changed lots of times in the past 2.4million years, what we term geologically the Quaternary period. In that time it has been significantly warmer and colder than today. The polar ice sheets have disappeared completely and returned to cover large areas of the northern land masses. The last cooling period the loch lomond readvance was 10,000yrs ago. And this happened really quickly for reasons we still do not understand. There is no doubt that these periods of warming and cooling caused mass extinctions of some species. However I was pointing out that given man's ingenuity we will survive global warming especially as large areas of the northern hemisphere are largely uninhabited. The points about natural disasters were also for context. Mankind can do nothing to prevent some very sudden near extinction level events. Lake Toba last erupted 75,000 years ago and Yellowstone circa 600,000 years ago these are VEI 8 eruptions that will cause planet wide very sudden mass extinctions. We havent had a VEI 8 in the Holocene epoch ie the last 10000 years. But we will get another that is certain. Theres been about 20-30 since we have been on two legs so to speak. Other natural disasters that would be catastrophic for man kind geographically include mega tsunamis. We are not talking about the Japanese and Indonesian events but things much bigger. Another Storrega slide in the north sea would flood and wipe out much of the South East UK and northern European coastline. This last occured only 10,000yrs ago. My final point was that there are imminent issues affecting us we can do something about natural resources are not unlimited. China is sweeping up large reserves of metals, notably copper, nickle, cobalt and gold in Africa and South America at such a pace its frightening. These will be needed for EV production amoungst other things. Food production and distribution needs to be made much more efficient and lastly but not least population growth needs stemming somehow. I certainly wasnt trying to belittle Greta but I do think we need to be focussing on other possibly more imminent issues as well that we could do something about. Anyway thats just my thoughts on the matter having studied and worked in the geological industry the past 30 plus years.
 
Last edited:
Well argued but if you paid millions to companies to debunk climate warming they would come up with facts and figures in there favour.

Seems the biggest countries in the world don't give a toss about climate change. If this country went 100% clean it wouldn't make any difference Whats so ever. Electric cars biggest con in this climate change bullshit

Sure, that's one of the biggest obstacles we have on this issue - climate doesn't respect national boundaries.

I agree that climate change is exploited politically, exploited by corporations, exploited by the media and exploited by marketing executives who want good PR for their brands. And much of the news about it IS overly alarmist and taking "worst case scenario" predictions and reporting them as fact. All of this is true.

You're also correct to say that our solutions to climate change are so politicised that it's a minefield trying to separate solutions that will actually help with solutions which are using the issue to push a different agenda. Renewable energy for example is a linked but different issue from climate change that has somehow become mixed together by people like in your electric cars example.

However, the misuse of climate change by people looking to exploit it is not the fault of the data. The data has no agenda or morality, it is just raw data. And that does show a heavy correlation between human activity and the heating of the planet. It's not the science's fault that it is being used badly. The climate change phenomena is real even if it is been used for fantasy solutions.

You might enjoy these (rather long) videos about climate change. They are by a climate science journalist who has spent much of his life trying to debunk the issue and the myths spouted by both the left and right wings by focusing strictly on the science. Here, he looks at potential Governmental climate change solutions from a conservative rather than left wing mindset:



 
Sure, that's one of the biggest obstacles we have on this issue - climate doesn't respect national boundaries.

I agree that climate change is exploited politically, exploited by corporations, exploited by the media and exploited by marketing executives who want good PR for their brands. And much of the news about it IS overly alarmist and taking "worst case scenario" predictions and reporting them as fact. All of this is true.

You're also correct to say that our solutions to climate change are so politicised that it's a minefield trying to separate solutions that will actually help with solutions which are using the issue to push a different agenda. Renewable energy for example is a linked but different issue from climate change that has somehow become mixed together by people like in your electric cars example.

However, the misuse of climate change by people looking to exploit it is not the fault of the data. The data has no agenda or morality, it is just raw data. And that does show a heavy correlation between human activity and the heating of the planet. It's not the science's fault that it is being used badly. The climate change phenomena is real even if it is been used for fantasy solutions.

You might enjoy these (rather long) videos about climate change. They are by a climate science journalist who has spent much of his life trying to debunk the issue and the myths spouted by both the left and right wings by focusing strictly on the science. Here, he looks at potential Governmental climate change solutions from a conservative rather than left wing mindset:





Your are wasting your time.

Anyone who replies -

Well argued but if you paid millions to companies to debunk climate warming they would come up with facts and figures in there favour.

To your initial comment has no interest in changing their mind when confronted with proof.
 
Well argued but if you paid millions to companies to debunk climate warming they would come up with facts and figures in there favour.

Seems the biggest countries in the world don't give a toss about climate change. If this country went 100% clean it wouldn't make any difference Whats so ever. Electric cars biggest con in this climate change bullshit

That's my take on this too, what can we actually do to make any difference when it has become a political football, this Greta lass is being used isn't she? I am under no illusion that she genuinely honestly means well but the shady lot behind her put her front and center so they can get a message across and avoid criticism.
 

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.