Harry Maguire

[FantasyIreland]

Don't quite understand all the negativity for Maguire in this thread. When him and Stones have played together for England, Maguire has looked by far the better player of the 2.

That's just not true.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

That's the fallacy. We are not trying to replace Kompany. Kompany had a great final stanza. But for a significant portion of the last 2 years he was an injury laden third choice Centerback.

Yes, he stepped up big in the run in. Was in form and healthy. But that wasn't Kompany for the majority of the 3 years of Pep.

We are at a crossroad. Unsure whether John can step up and takeover as the leader and starter we've seen in flashes or are we going to need to find a new starter.

I'm saying we should trust that John who we've seen play fantastic football in spurts over 2 seasons, can. And if he gets injured, I have faith in Sandler's ability to step up to the plate and succeed. The only issue is will we have an experienced backup in Ota' or not.

If we do, then I'd say skip on Maguire and nuture this talented player already on our roster. He's got everything a CB in a Pep team needs.

Nice discussion. People also forget that Dinho can fill in in a pinch, too, and Garcia has played there, too!

Stupid money being talked about for Maguire would be absolutely ridiculous and could only possibly be sanctioned if Pep demanded it from Khaldoon. Why buy these young international prodigies if we are always too scared to give them the minutes needed to see if they can step up?! It sounds crazy, know, but at some point everyone has to make the mistakes needed to grow and learn, and we simply have to accept them from the young kids as we do with the established greats. No one dismissed Vinny for his significant lapses and getting sent off, so let’s let Sandler have some time to learn his PL trade in the PL. without it, we will never know if they’re good enough.

In some respects, I’d accept not winning silverware for a year if it meant we had blooded a handful of younger players and prepared the, to be First Team Squad players for the next decade. And, even if we pay stupid money for Maguire, there is nothing to suggest he won’t make mistakes that cost us games, either!

 

[Dax777]

What we need is someone to occupy that centre back spot next to laporte and pep clearly doesn't trust stones in the big games or when it really counts as he showed at the end of the season.

That's an untrue characterization. Pep trusted John at the start of the season, it was after his injury and personal problem coupled with Kompany hitting good form that confined John to the bench.

Prior to his injury, John started every big game. I expect John to be the starter next season. And if given the opportunity, Sandler wi run him close.

 

[ADegenerate]

Nice discussion. People also forget that Dinho can fill in in a pinch, too, and Garcia has played there, too!

Stupid money being talked about for Maguire would be absolutely ridiculous and could only possibly be sanctioned if Pep demanded it from Khaldoon. Why buy these young international prodigies if we are always too scared to give them the minutes needed to see if they can step up?! It sounds crazy, know, but at some point everyone has to make the mistakes needed to grow and learn, and we simply have to accept them from the young kids as we do with the established greats. No one dismissed Vinny for his significant lapses and getting sent off, so let’s let Sandler have some time to learn his PL trade in the PL. without it, we will never know if they’re good enough.

In some respects, I’d accept not winning silverware for a year if it meant we had blooded a handful of younger players and prepared the, to be First Team Squad players for the next decade. And, even if we pay stupid money for Maguire, there is nothing to suggest he won’t make mistakes that cost us games, either!

I'll chime in and play a little bit of devils advocate here. I've never been a fan of paying big money for CB's (and we love doing that which drives me 'nuts'). I rated Nico and argued against signing Stones. I like Stones, but unlike Laporte he isn't a lock starter for the future. This would be a very smart and necessary signing IMO.

If we had any other manager but Guardiola then I would understand the point @Dax777 made with Sandler and the point you're arguing about sacrificing potential trophies in the short term for the long term gains.

The fact of the matter is that we have the best manager of a generation (for my money he's the best of all time, in every sport too, 0 hyperbole on my end there either...). You don't goof off and bet on youth when you're in the position that we're in. You maximize every single little edge you can and get the most out of Pep when he's here. Our squad/recruitment has been so incredible lately that we literally don't need even have a spot in our starting 11 that needs upgrading. Ferandinho/Gundogan, Nico/Stones is sufficient to win every trophy next season but we aren't satisfied with settling. We're doing exactly what I talked about and maximizing Pep's opportunities to win and I sincerely admire that. Maguire / Cancelo would be a perfect window for improving our squad...ESPECIALLY if Nico stays another season. Unfortunately, there's the homegrown quota and he's one of the few that are available AND that are good enough to play on our squad and also help us hit that number.

There's 0.0 chance we pay 80m and have him on 280k a week either! We only sign players that WANT to be here. If he comes then it'll be on similar wages to Laporte with nice bonuses. Depending on how stubborn and how much Maguire is willing to push for the move will determine if that number is closer to 60 or 70. I could see us offering bonuses but allowing them to win the media war in stating the fee.

Not a huge fan of the player myself but the considering the state of our squad I think it's yet another wise move.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

That's just not true.

Maguire looked better than Stones in the world cup and looked better in the nations league imo. He has just looked more dependable.
Stones had a purple patch at the start of last season, up until he got injured, where he looked class. Apart from then hes been very inconsistent and at times a liability.
Now admittedly I have seen a lot less of Maguire. But if I was going off England performances I would imo say Maguire is the better player.

 

[ADegenerate]

That's an untrue characterization. Pep trusted John at the start of the season, it was after his injury and personal problem coupled with Kompany hitting good form that confined John to the bench.

Prior to his injury, John started every big game. I expect John to be the starter next season. And if given the opportunity, Sandler wi run him close.

I'm not buying that regarding Stones. Pep preferred Nico in 17/18 and Kompany in 18/19.

Here's his PL games the last 3 seasons 24(20), 18(16), 27(23). Pep rates him but has stated that he doesn't really trust him vs physical teams and that's why he plays more in the cups and gets rotated out in the PL.

If Nico was a few years younger I reckon Stones would have played even less last season.

 

[ctid1894]

I like McGuire. I really do. I think he is faster than most of our fans realize. He is decent with the ball at his feet. He is very tall and can be a supreme asset on Cornerkicks at both ends. He is also a large man, so a good candidate for being an intimidator.

All that said, I will only want him here if Otamendi left.

Frankly, I think we have a Superstar on our books hiding in plain sight.

Give Philippe Sandler a chance. He is the best ball playing defender on the squad. He is quick, decisive and a supremely talented passer for a defender. Him coming out of defense with the ball is Debryune-like in aggression.

Giive Phillipe A chance Pep. Let the fantastic scouting work it's magic.

Is their any weaknesses to suggest why he hasn’t been given a chance so far? I’ve got to admit I’ve not seen the lad other than the odd few minutes he’s had here and there.

 

[vincent]

I like McGuire. I really do. I think he is faster than most of our fans realize. He is decent with the ball at his feet. He is very tall and can be a supreme asset on Cornerkicks at both ends. He is also a large man, so a good candidate for being an intimidator.

All that said, I will only want him here if Otamendi left.

Frankly, I think we have a Superstar on our books hiding in plain sight.

Give Philippe Sandler a chance. He is the best ball playing defender on the squad. He is quick, decisive and a supremely talented passer for a defender. Him coming out of defense with the ball is Debryune-like in aggression.

Giive Phillipe A chance Pep. Let the fantastic scouting work it's magic.

Out of interest how do you know Sandler is the best ball playing defender in the squad? Are you basing this on the minutes he played last season against a championship team?

 

[Benarbia’s Backheel]

That's the fallacy. We are not trying to replace Kompany. Kompany had a great final stanza. But for a significant portion of the last 2 years he was an injury laden third choice Centerback.

Yes, he stepped up big in the run in. Was in form and healthy. But that wasn't Kompany for the majority of the 3 years of Pep.

We are at a crossroad. Unsure whether John can step up and takeover as the leader and starter we've seen in flashes or are we going to need to find a new starter.

I'm saying we should trust that John who we've seen play fantastic football in spurts over 2 seasons, can. And if he gets injured, I have faith in Sandler's ability to step up to the plate and succeed. The only issue is will we have an experienced backup in Ota' or not.

If we do, then I'd say skip on Maguire and nuture this talented player already on our roster. He's got everything a CB in a Pep team needs.

May I ask where you’ve managed to gain all of this insight on Sandler? Was it the brief appearance in the 7-0 against Rotherham, or are you an avid watcher of PEC Zwolle FC? In the brief Appearances I’ve seen he does look very good, and I would be very very happy if he was given a chance, but Pep knows best. It would be interesting to see him in a premier league game to see if he’s as comfortable on the ball in a big league

 

[johnmc]

Sandler won’t make it here.