Has the BBC become a Tory tool?

[inchy14]

Because he condemns racism while indulging in casual anti-semitism by minimising the evil of the Nazi regime and holocaust. Andrew Bridgen was suspended from the Conservative Party for the same thing recently.

Wow.

 

[mattcity5]

At one extreme there is holocaust denial. The trivialisation of the holocaust by pretending it didn’t exist. We’d all see that as grossly offensive.

At the other extreme of the same offence are comments like Lineker’s. He implies the Nazi regime was the same as something in contemporary society that isn’t immensely evil. This is in effect a very mild form of holocaust denial. It implies the holocaust is trivial in the same way it implies the relatively trivial contemporary thing is immensely evil.

I’m not saying this kind of comparison can never be done, but it should be used far more sparingly than it is. Is Lineker’s use of it proportionate to the real world issue? Not in my view and so it is an offensive comparison to make. Others might come to a different conclusion.

In my view he’d have been better to say something like the rhetoric used by the Home Secretary was reminiscent of that used by Thatcher during the miners strikes or something. He didn’t need to trivialise a great human tragedy to make his point.

You mention our current regime is not "immensely evil", however that will only be determined after the fact. They are currently ticking many boxes for what determines a fascist leadership and their lack of care for other human beings would at least make me think of them as "slightly evil" tbh.

For what it's worth, I think all the discussion of what he said and whether he should have is ridiculous. You're a lot more critical of his comment (which matches comments made by actual holocaust survivors) than of comments, policy and behaviour by our government. I can only presume you'd still be standing by them if they were herding unfortunates into camps.

 

[Stephen230]

If you have had several letters I'm surprised they haven't passed you onto to Akinika, they will at some point and you will really love the experience they are a joy to deal with!

I’ve been getting a letter about every fortnight on average for the year I’ve lived in a new place. All addressed to “the occupier” They can’t even be arsed finding out my name, which they could quite easily do, never mind anything else. I actually decided when they started writing that as soon as I get one with my name on, I’ll take that as I sign they’re closing in and bite the bullet. But no sign of that yet.

 

[mattcity5]

I’m discussing the issue directly. Lineker was using it rhetorically to emphasise a point. There is a difference. If you stomp round saying everything that annoys you is like the Nazis then you’re trivialising the evils of the Nazis.

No he wasn't, it was his whole point. It is similar. Not identical, but similar.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

At the other extreme of the same offence are comments like Lineker’s. He implies the Nazi regime was the same as something in contemporary society that isn’t immensely evil. This is in effect a very mild form of holocaust denial. It implies the holocaust is trivial in the same way it implies the relatively trivial contemporary thing is immensely evil.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

 

[Chris B]

The comparison doesn’t change its meaning based on who says it. One might be more informed, sure, but the statement cannot be valid from one and holocaust denial when someone agrees with them.

Plus if your argument is that no one but holocaust survivors can speak to 1930s Germany then what the hell are you doing arguing that there’s no comparison - unless you were there?

No, I don’t think the meaning is changed. I think someone who has the experience isn’t acting to trivialise the issue in the same way as someone disconnected from it is when they invoke it purely for rhetorical purposes.

Is our immigrant background Home Secretary and immigrant background PM and Jewish Chancellor of the Exchequer really like Hitler and his mob? Of course not and using the comparison is disproportionate and offensive unless you happen to be talking directly from your personal life experience. Lineker isn’t, he was born after the war was long finished, so he should be more careful not to use it as a comparison inappropriately.

 

[west didsblue]

No, you need to improve your comprehension skills. What is said was, and I quote “I’m not saying that this kind of comparison can never be done”. If a holocaust survivor sees a connection based on their experience then they obviously have more leeway than someone like Lineker who does not have that background.

Likewise, it is understandable that a holocaust survivor would be prone to over sensitivity to such issues, and that their judgement might be skewed by that, as all of our judgements are informed by our life experiences. I think they have every right to talk about their experiences, I don’t think that same right extends to those who never suffered the same fate. It doesn’t mean they are right, of course.

“It’s understandable that Holocaust survivors are prone to over sensitivity about the Holocaust??”

WTAF!!!!!

 

[domalino]

I’m discussing the issue directly. Lineker was using it rhetorically to emphasise a point. There is a difference. If you stomp round saying everything that annoys you is like the Nazis then you’re trivialising the evils of the Nazis.

Does Gary Lineker stomp around saying everything that annoys him is like the Nazis?

No. he’s compared one thing to 1930s Germany off the back of a holocaust survivor making headlines a month earlier for doing the same.

It’s another very feeble straw man.

 

[argyle]

 

[domalino]

Of course not and using the comparison is disproportionate and offensive unless you happen to be talking directly from your personal life experience. Lineker isn’t, he was born after the war was long finished, so he should be more careful not to use it as a comparison inappropriately.

Again your argument depends on this ludicrous idea that if Joan Salter says something it’s fair and valid, but if I or Gar Lineker say we agree with Joan it’s disproportionate and offensive.

And secondary to that you keep claiming Lineker can’t speak to the 30s because he wasn’t there, but you have no problem talking about them yourself despite also not being there.