Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[The Future's Blue]

It was ten to three when the police opened the exit gate. Why would the scousers not be trying to get into the ground? Then they compounded this by not closing the tunnel gates to the central pens. It really isn't hard to understand pal. Unless of course you don't want to hear the truth.

Hear the truth, or hear the truth?

The Gathering Crowd
57. Towards the end of the morning, fans gathered on and around the bridge near the Leppings Lane entrance. They seemed reluctant to enter the ground early. All turnstiles were open at 12 noon and one or two
as early as 11.30 am. Some 53 police had been deployed to operate outside the turnstiles and in the Leppings Lane area. They enquired at random whether fans had tickets. Those who had not were advised to go away; nevertheless, many returned more than once. Those who had tickets were guided in the right direction. The police tried to persuade them to enter the ground early. Officers, male and female, had been posted outside each turnstile with the duty of searching entrants for weapons, drink or drugs. Once through the turnstile, an entrant was liable to be searched again by one of a serial of officers positioned just inside.

I have nothing against Liverpool, or their fans. I have nothing against the Police (I lie), or their fans. However, I like to understand the truth, not some sort of slanted bias.

I've read both reports, in full, and have my view. I have also had (I won't say heated) conversations with an ex-headmaster who was there on the day (who also had children and family there) where I purely based my opinion on what I had read in the media. I was all against the Police and all for the supporters, afterall, I was one of them in that time, yet he made me think, and led me to reading into what the reality was.

A tragic set of events caused by previous wrongs made by many different agencies.

I'll debate with you, or anybody else no further, unless they have read the full reports. And, understood them.

Towards the end of the morning? So you expect fans to enter the ground more than 3 hours before the game?

59. By 2 pm it was apparent to those inside the ground and those monitoring events in the police and Club control rooms that the number of Nottingham fans in their places greatly outnumbered those from Liverpool.
The Kop and the south stand were filling up steadily, but the north and west stands were half empty. It was noted about that time that the turnstile figures showed only 12,000 had entered as against 20,000 at the same
time the previous year. On the west terraces, although pens 3 and 4 were filling, the wing pens 1,2,6 and 7 were nearly empty. At 2.15 pm a Tannoy message asked fans in pens 3 and 4 to move forward and make room for
others.

 

[mackenzie]

Sorry, what, the police fucked up with supporters who did not want to enter the ground? What did they do wrong?

It was ten to three when the police opened the exit gate. Why would the scousers not be trying to get into the ground? Then they compounded this by not closing the tunnel gates to the central pens. It really isn't hard to understand pal. Unless of course you don't want to hear the truth.

Hear the truth, or hear the truth?

The Gathering Crowd
57. Towards the end of the morning, fans gathered on and around the bridge near the Leppings Lane entrance. They seemed reluctant to enter the ground early. All turnstiles were open at 12 noon and one or two
as early as 11.30 am. Some 53 police had been deployed to operate outside the turnstiles and in the Leppings Lane area. They enquired at random whether fans had tickets. Those who had not were advised to go away; nevertheless, many returned more than once. Those who had tickets were guided in the right direction. The police tried to persuade them to enter the ground early. Officers, male and female, had been posted outside each turnstile with the duty of searching entrants for weapons, drink or drugs. Once through the turnstile, an entrant was liable to be searched again by one of a serial of officers positioned just inside.

I have nothing against Liverpool, or their fans. I have nothing against the Police (I lie), or their fans. However, I like to understand the truth, not some sort of slanted bias.

I've read both reports, in full, and have my view. I have also had (I won't say heated) conversations with an ex-headmaster who was there on the day (who also had children and family there) where I purely based my opinion on what I had read in the media. I was all against the Police and all for the supporters, afterall, I was one of them in that time, yet he made me think, and led me to reading into what the reality was.

A tragic set of events caused by previous wrongs made by many different agencies.

I'll debate with you, or anybody else no further, unless they have read the full reports. And, understood them.

Was your ex headmaster called as a witness or did he give a statement?

 

[Cellarite]

You can quote as many passages of the report as you like but your argument is not really making sense.

A tannoy announcement asking Liverpool fans in packed pens to move forward to make room for more? Can you spot the flaw in this plan?

 

[shackattack]

that is amazing. the tannoy asked them to move and they never. traumatic asphyxiation kicking in probably prevented them i guess.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I wonder if we could run a Poll to find out how many people have read either the Interim or Final reports?

From reading this thread, all basis of fact is purely down to what they've seen on TV or from other media sources, some of whom have been apologising ever since.

I've read both, plus a lot of other stuff, and I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Spell it out in plain English.

We've had this conversation before mate so I won't go into it on full. Your view is set in stone, mine is not.

What I will do however, is post only fact from the Taylor report with no regard to any thought of mine whatsoever.

I don't work on 'In conclusion' mate, there is a lot more to it than that. In my opinion of course.

Well let's post some fact from the Interim Report.

Unfortunately, their policing on 15 April broke down in the ways already described and, although there were other causes, the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control.

 

[44%]

People of sheffield really played a blinder that day in the era of no cell phones

The ITV documentory published yesterday is a must watch , best one i have seen in years

 

[The Future's Blue]

Was your ex headmaster called as a witness or did he give a statement?

Not my ex pal, no need for discreditation here. This was one of my best muckers who died a couple of years back. He didn't mention a statement and I did not ask.

I suppose you could say I am making this up but I have no problem with you having your opinion. That is, as long as it's informed, which I'm sure it is.

 

[bluemanc]

On the film last night you could see the empty pens at either side.
Let the fans in yes but not to have Police on the inside of the gate directing fans to the empty pens was an horrific error.
The keeping of the 40+Ambulances outside because of fighting on the pitch was a lie of huge magnitude,who the fuck gave that order???
Off topic really.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.playthegame.org/news/detailed/pel-stadium-seatings-owes-its-success-to-the-hillsborough-disaster-999.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.playthegame.org/news/detaile ... r-999.html</a>

It has now emerged that some senior football figures, and a club director, Mike McGinnity, then on the board at West Bromwich Albion, now Coventry's vice-chairman, profitted even more directly from the post-Taylor Report rebuilding
In summer 1989, with Lord Justice Taylor still conducting his inquiry, and the Football Association pushing hard for all-seater stadia, McGinnity, a personal friend of FA chairman Sir Bert Millichip, bought a company, Pel, which made plastic seats. He then formed a specific division, Pel Stadium Seating, and took on as a director Ted Croker, the recently retired secretary of the FA. Crokers son-in-law, Nick Harrison, was appointed sales director in January 1990, the month Taylor published his report.

I'm afraid any links to this will have long ago been shredded,a hell of a lot of people made money out of the Lies that were told.

 

[The Future's Blue]

I've read both, plus a lot of other stuff, and I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Spell it out in plain English.

We've had this conversation before mate so I won't go into it on full. Your view is set in stone, mine is not.

What I will do however, is post only fact from the Taylor report with no regard to any thought of mine whatsoever.

I don't work on 'In conclusion' mate, there is a lot more to it than that. In my opinion of course.

Well let's post some fact from the Interim Report.

Unfortunately, their policing on 15 April broke down in the ways already described and, although there were other causes, the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control.

I like it PB and have no problem with your views. The truth for me though is that the conclusion does not actually represent the interim report, more pasting over the facts that lead to the final report, ensuring that a region is placed above the blame while a well swept change is put in its place.

iii. A Blight on Football
26. Football is our national game. We gave it to the world. But its image in our country has been much tarnished. In my Interim Report I concentrated on overcrowding because it was the cause of the Hillsborough disaster. But wider and deeper inquiry shows that overcrowding is only one feature amongst a number causing danger or marring football as a spectator sport. The picture revealed is of a general malaise or blight over the game due to a number of factors. Principally these are: old grounds, poor facilities, hooliganism, excessive drinking and poor leadership. Crowd safety and crowd behaviour with which I am concerned are closely related to the quality of the accommodation and facilities offered and to the standards which are encouraged and enforced. So I think it necessary to consider all these aspects.

 

[shackattack]

the bottom line of hillsborough on what i have read is that the low rank officers did all they could once they realised what was happening, but there was a distinct lack of response from senior officers. accounts were deleted or altered and officers were told to amend them to show the police in a favourable light. any which showed the fans in a negative light were left unaltered. the only people that were organised on the pitch were the fans who ferried people on makeshift stretchers.