Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[Prestwich_Blue]

We've had this conversation before mate so I won't go into it on full. Your view is set in stone, mine is not.

What I will do however, is post only fact from the Taylor report with no regard to any thought of mine whatsoever.

I don't work on 'In conclusion' mate, there is a lot more to it than that. In my opinion of course.

Well let's post some fact from the Interim Report.

Unfortunately, their policing on 15 April broke down in the ways already described and, although there were other causes, the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control.

I like it PB and have no problem with your views. The truth for me though is that the conclusion does not actually represent the interim report, more pasting over the facts that lead to the final report, ensuring that a region is placed above the blame while a well swept change is put in its place.

It's not my "views". It's what Lord Justice Taylor wrote. And then you write some unintelligible nonsense again.

Let me put words into your mouth. You are one of those that thinks the Taylor Report is a whitewash or pack of lies and you don't have the balls to say it out loud. You read it and then discounted everything in there that didn't correspond to what you were told by one person, whose view may or may not have been reliable.

 

[mackenzie]

Was your ex headmaster called as a witness or did he give a statement?

Not my ex pal, no need for discreditation here. This was one of my best muckers who died a couple of years back. He didn't mention a statement and I did not ask.

I suppose you could say I am making this up but I have no problem with you having your opinion. That is, as long as it's informed, which I'm sure it is.

I'm not suggesting you made it up, not at all.
Just saying that one persons view of a catastrophic event isn't necessarily the truth.
I'm sure he said it in good faith but it is hardly evidence.

 

[Cellarite]

What time is the report out tomorrow?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Whether a few Liverpool fans were pissed or not is the side show to the main event.

Our tax dollars are given almost unconditionally in the main. One implied condition of that is is that the state protects us as best it can in certain situations. Isn't that the justification for all this anti-terrorism legislation ?No-one in control of their faculties can seriously suggest that an FA Cup Semi Final is not one of those situations.

Equally no-one in control of their faculties can seriously suggest that the state provided an adequate level of care that day.

Until this is acknowledged and addressed then this tragic event will continue to fester.

 

[mackenzie]

Whether a few Liverpool fans were pissed or not is the side show to the main event.

Our tax dollars are given almost unconditionally in the main. One implied condition of that is is that the state protects us as best it can in certain situations. Isn't that the justification for all this anti-terrorism legislation ?No-one in control of their faculties can seriously suggest that an FA Cup Semi Final is not one of those situations.

Equally no-one in control of their faculties can seriously suggest that the state provided an adequate level of care that day.

Until this is acknowledged and addressed then this tragic event will continue to fester.

Summed up perfectly.

And to those who say the scousers should let it rest, well I hope they don't.
If it was my lad at 15 going to a match and I got him back in a coffin, knowing that he lived for much longer than the soddin convenient 'cut off' point, then I would do the same as Kevin Williams Mum.
Good luck to her for tomorrow.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Here is a 100% unmitigated apology from me about the Hillsborough disaster.

I have just deen the ITV documentary on iPlayer.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind now that the Police were responsible for the tragic events that happened that day.

To all Liverpool supporters and the Campaigners for Justice for the 96, I support you and hope that you get everything you are seeking to achieve.

 

[mackenzie]

Here is a 100% unmitigated apology from me about the Hillsborough disaster.

I have just deen the ITV documentary on iPlayer.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind now that the Police were responsible for the tragic events that happened that day.

To all Liverpool supporters and the Campaigners for Justice for the 96, I support you and hope that you get everything you are seeking to achieve.

That is a great post Joe.

I think the reasons for showing the documentary 2 days before the hearing was to address some of the misinformation that is still out there, so kudos for your post x

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Here is a 100% unmitigated apology from me about the Hillsborough disaster.

I have just deen the ITV documentary on iPlayer.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind now that the Police were responsible for the tragic events that happened that day.

To all Liverpool supporters and the Campaigners for Justice for the 96, I support you and hope that you get everything you are seeking to achieve.

Well done. The thing is, anyone with an open mind who sees the evidence is clear about what happened. Yes there were fans who were drunk, yes there were fans without tickets, yes some behaved badly. But that's no different to any other big game then or now and that's not why 96 people died.

They died because the people who were charged with ensuring their safety failed to discharge that duty properly. Then some of those people lied about their failures.

 

[Lucky Toma]

Sorry, what, the police fucked up with supporters who did not want to enter the ground? What did they do wrong?

It was ten to three when the police opened the exit gate. Why would the scousers not be trying to get into the ground? Then they compounded this by not closing the tunnel gates to the central pens. It really isn't hard to understand pal. Unless of course you don't want to hear the truth.

Hear the truth, or hear the truth?

The Gathering Crowd
57. Towards the end of the morning, fans gathered on and around the bridge near the Leppings Lane entrance. They seemed reluctant to enter the ground early. All turnstiles were open at 12 noon and one or two
as early as 11.30 am. Some 53 police had been deployed to operate outside the turnstiles and in the Leppings Lane area. They enquired at random whether fans had tickets. Those who had not were advised to go away; nevertheless, many returned more than once. Those who had tickets were guided in the right direction. The police tried to persuade them to enter the ground early. Officers, male and female, had been posted outside each turnstile with the duty of searching entrants for weapons, drink or drugs. Once through the turnstile, an entrant was liable to be searched again by one of a serial of officers positioned just inside.

I have nothing against Liverpool, or their fans. I have nothing against the Police (I lie), or their fans. However, I like to understand the truth, not some sort of slanted bias.

I've read both reports, in full, and have my view. I have also had (I won't say heated) conversations with an ex-headmaster who was there on the day (who also had children and family there) where I purely based my opinion on what I had read in the media. I was all against the Police and all for the supporters, afterall, I was one of them in that time, yet he made me think, and led me to reading into what the reality was.

A tragic set of events caused by previous wrongs made by many different agencies.

I'll debate with you, or anybody else no further, unless they have read the full reports. And, understood them.

The more pertinent point I would suggest is not whether people have read and understood the full reports but whether anyone has read and understood your posts.

I've read about six or seven and still haven't got a scooby what the hell you're going on about.

 

[44%]

What time is the report out tomorrow?

Family get the
Hillsborough papers at 9am, press at
12pm, PM statement at 12:30pm,
families statement at 14:30